Reto Berra vs. Karri Ramo

[moon]

Originally Posted by strombad

Out of curiosity, and maybe it's been posted already, but does someone have the time to come up with the GF during Berra's starts vs. Ramo's starts?

It would be a slight indicator of team performance during the playing time of each tender.

My quick rundown had Ramo with 21 games started and 50 GF in those games.

Berra 20 games started with 32 GF in those games.

Could have missed a game or miss counted but looks like a big advantage (2.38 GPG vs. 1.6 GPG) for Ramo.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by moon

My quick rundown had Ramo with 21 games started and 50 GF in those games.

Berra 20 games started with 32 GF in those games.

Could have missed a game or miss counted but looks like a big advantage (2.38 GPG vs. 1.6 GPG) for Ramo.

To me, the goals for stats represent how confident playing in team is playing in front of the goalie. If they score more, it shows they feel that they can relax more.

It's the McElhinney factor. Some people felt sorry for him that the team could never score when he was in net, but I always felt that reflected more on McElhinney himself.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by moon

My quick rundown had Ramo with 21 games started and 50 GF in those games.

Berra 20 games started with 32 GF in those games.

Could have missed a game or miss counted but looks like a big advantage (2.38 GPG vs. 1.6 GPG) for Ramo.

Presuming "moon's" math is accurate. It also shows that perhaps a big save when needed does inject energy to the bench. That if you hold the team in as long as possible perhaps a reason for the advantage?

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's the McElhinney factor. Some people felt sorry for him that the team could never score when he was in net, but I always felt that reflected more on McElhinney himself.

For anyone keeping score, McElhinney is 8-8-1 for the Jackets this year. 2.82 GAA, .908 save percentage. Seems to have played reasonably well in Bobrovsky’s absence; however, some of those games have been ugly (he’s 4-4 in his last eight games; however, in those four losses, he’s let in 6, 5, 5, and 5).

[HelloHockeyFans]

I think most people would agree that momentum is a massive factor in hockey, which would explain why we often see other stats that can be associated to teams playing better in front of one goalie vs. another.

[Henry Fool]

We shouldn't forget that Berra had only played in Switzerland before this season. That's a big disadvantage. The coaches and management got ahead of themselves by talking him up to the media when they should have treated him as a prospect. The whole team fell in love with the idea of finding a gem and it's as if they were trying to will it to happen.

Now he's in a situation where he's desperate for wins. Whether it's his fault or not, being so far from .500 in wins will eventually begin to make him look like a losing goalie. 9 games in the AHL isn't enough preparation for an NHL career.

Rämö's main advantage is that he's been playing higher level hockey since he was 20 than Berra ever had before the current season.

[tvp2003]

Berra with another shootout win -- this time in relief of Ramo. Really interesting goalie dynamic with this team right now -- looking forward to see how things play out over the next couple of months (especially `with Berra's contract up this season).

Based on the shootout alone, the results are not even comparable: http://www.nhl.com/ice/shootoutstats...ootoutsGoalies

Berra: 4-0, .762 save percentage
Ramo: 0-3, .429 save percentage

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

Presuming "moon's" math is accurate. It also shows that perhaps a big save when needed does inject energy to the bench. That if you hold the team in as long as possible perhaps a reason for the advantage?

There is a minimal at best chance this is true. Its not like the Flames got shutout every game when Kipprusoff didn't play when Karlsson or McBackup was playing.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

There is a minimal at best chance this is true. Its not like the Flames got shutout every game when Kipprusoff didn't play when Karlsson or McBackup was playing.

Really? I'm thinking a minimal at worst chance this is true and although it's not a statistic you can really prove, this is the closest statistic you can use to proving it.

A big save can definitely give your team momentum. A goalie showing that he hasn't given up will trickle down to the players and give them at least a bit of a boost. The same way a big penalty kill can shift the momentum of a game.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Really? I'm thinking a minimal at worst chance this is true and although it's not a statistic you can really prove, this is the closest statistic you can use to proving it.

A big save can definitely give your team momentum. A goalie showing that he hasn't given up will trickle down to the players and give them at least a bit of a boost. The same way a big penalty kill can shift the momentum of a game.

The team scores more goals with Ramo that is true. There is a minimal chance that Ramo being in net has anything to do with it. Ramo was awful yesterday and they scored 4 goals.

Here's an article from a few years back about goal support for goalies. There are good goalies on both lists. The Canadians score a ton more goals for Halak than they did for Price for example. http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/puck...?articleid=429

[btimbit]

Berra playing a lot better in his first nhl season than Ramo did in his. No surprise Ramo seems more nhl ready than Berra.

I'd like to see Ramo here next year, with ortio getting some nhl time. I'd like to see Burke give Berra a contract and see him play in abby to see what happens. Depends on if we resign macdonald too, maybe have him up with Ramo and save Ortio until the team is good

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Berra playing a lot better in his first nhl season than Ramo did in his. No surprise Ramo seems more nhl ready than Berra.

I'd like to see Ramo here next year, with ortio getting some nhl time. I'd like to see Burke give Berra a contract and see him play in abby to see what happens. Depends on if we resign macdonald too, maybe have him up with Ramo and save Ortio until the team is good

Not that it matters either way, but so far he is not. Rämö was 7-11-3 with .899 save percentage in his rookie year. Berra is 6-14-2 with .895 save percentage. How is that "a lot better"?

It really doesn't matter but I don't get why you keep saying that.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The team scores more goals with Ramo that is true. There is a minimal chance that Ramo being in net has anything to do with it. Ramo was awful yesterday and they scored 4 goals.

Here's an article from a few years back about goal support for goalies. There are good goalies on both lists. The Canadians score a ton more goals for Halak than they did for Price for example. http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/puck...?articleid=429

I was just alluding to the fact a big save can shift the momentum of the game. Berra seems to let in a lot of softies which can be very demoralizing for a team, whereas Ramo seems to make saves at the right time. I've seen plenty of games where the Flames will get many scoring chances followed by the puck getting turned over and the opposing team scoring on their only scoring chance (not just talking about Berra, this kind of thing can happen to any goalie on any team).

Hartley said himself that he didn't blame Ramo for the goals that were let in. Goalies being pulled can help to wake a team up and buckle down before things get too out of hand. That seemed to be exactly what happened and kudos to Berra for putting in a good performance.

[PIMking]

I tell you this, EVERY SINGLE shot scares the holy hell out of me with both of those guys in net.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Not that it matters either way, but so far he is not. Rämö was 7-11-3 with .899 save percentage in his rookie year. Berra is 6-14-2 with .895 save percentage. How is that "a lot better"?

It really doesn't matter but I don't get why you keep saying that.

Ah fair enough. I never looked up the stats, just remember watching him at the time thinking 'this guy sucks'

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Ah fair enough. I never looked up the stats, just remember watching him at the time thinking 'this guy sucks'

Well you might have been right, can't say I've ever followed Tampa Bay, but he was also just 21 back then. For example Ortio is turning 23 in a couple of months. 21 is very young for an NHL goalie and it looks like he was rushed into the lineup. Their other goalies in 06-07 season were Mike Smith (.893 svp) and Johan Holmqvist (.893), which suggests that it wasn't exactly a goalie haven back then. I don't really think it matters though.

To be honest the reason I'm cool with the current goaltending might be because I don't particularly care if they lose this season. People who say that Rämö is ideally a backup who plays 20-30 games are probably right. And from what we've seen, I think the odds are against Berra becoming a significant goalie.

Doesn't mean they can't improve. Even Kipper had plenty of things to work on when he came to Calgary at 27. And they aren't as bad as some posters make them sound. They could both string some wins together behind a good team, I'm sure.

[killer_carlson]

uh..... hello? Haven't you been listening during the games?

It's Berro

[t0rrent98]

Not that this really matters or I maybe seeing things but I am pretty sure I saw Karri Ramo at Chinook Mall tonight around 630-7pm ish. He was rushing towards the downstairs washroom.... LOL. He looked at me funny as through I knew him from some place... haha. And NO I didn't follow him to see if it was actually him.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'd like to see Ramo here next year, with ortio getting some nhl time. I'd like to see Burke give Berra a contract and see him play in abby to see what happens. Depends on if we resign macdonald too, maybe have him up with Ramo and save Ortio until the team is good

Can't see that happening but I guess you never know. I'd like to see one more year of Berra. If he doesn't improve he can always take McDonald's spot in Abby.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by t0rrent98

Not that this really matters or I maybe seeing things but I am pretty sure I saw Karri Ramo at Chinook Mall tonight around 630-7pm ish. He was rushing towards the downstairs washroom.... LOL. He looked at me funny as through I knew him from some place... haha. And NO I didn't follow him to see if it was actually him.

but its your civic duty to give us s all details! Next time follow that man! Haha



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