Brian Burke guest speaker at Sports Law Society (UofC)

[troutman]

A billion $ franchise like the Calgary Flames could have so many diverse legal needs, that there's no way a handful of in-house lawyers would have the skills to cover all the different practice areas - tax, employment, contract, immigration, intellectual property, corporate/commercial, litigation etc.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Explains it almost completely to me.

Yeah, you're right, council and department mean different things. I equate them as being the same thing, separate from other departments.

Maybe I'm over reacting, but that's huge admission by Burke.

Mike Holditch, has the CBA interpreting responsibility, so I'd say some of the fault goes to him although he's an accountant and not a lawyer.

In this role Michael works closely with General Manager Jay Feaster and Director of Hockey Administration Mike Burke on the direction of all hockey operations including CBA interpretation, team development, administration and tracking of the player budget, player negotiations, arbitration, scheduling and contract review and documentation.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=40740

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Mike Holditch, has the CBA interpreting responsibility, so I'd say some of the fault goes to him although he's an accountant and not a lawyer.

Yeah... that's because Feaster is a lawyer....

[troutman]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Yeah... that's because Feaster is a lawyer....

Feaster and Burke are both lawyers but I don't know if either of them maintained memberships with any state or provincial bar associations, while working for the Flames.

[CaptainYooh]

Always have a huge amount of respect for people taking time to share the experiences they know would be of interest to others. Thank you, Five-hole.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by troutman

A billion $ franchise like the Calgary Flames could have so many diverse legal needs, that there's no way a handful of in-house lawyers would have the skills to cover all the different practice areas - tax, employment, contract, immigration, intellectual property, corporate/commercial, litigation etc.

I've always assumed this to be the case, however, I would have thought that some things would stay within the organization, if only because it might help expedite while also being cheaper. Immigration, for example, I would have thought would be an in-house position.

I also assumed things like tax and intellectual property would be handled outside of the organization to best mobilize the right people in what I think are often more complex legal wranglings.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by troutman

Feaster and Burke are both lawyers but I don't know if either of them maintained memberships with any state or provincial bar associations, while working for the Flames.

Feaster maintains active membership in the Pennsylvania bar (Bar No.: 49815): [EDIT - privacy]

Burke maintains active membership in the Massachusetts bar (Bar No.: 064750): http://massbbo.org/bbolookup.php?sl=...soundex=&hit=7

Neither would be permitted to actually practice law in Canada, although "practicing" and "using your legal skills and experience in your current position" are two different things. I think the key point would be neither are allowed to hold themselves out as practicing lawyers in Alberta.

[Freeway]

It's also worth noting, in Calgary's defense, that the CBA wasn't actually FINISHED when the O'Reilly hing went down. They were still figuring out language.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Freeway

It's also worth noting, in Calgary's defense, that the CBA wasn't actually FINISHED when the O'Reilly hing went down. They were still figuring out language.

Yeah, but when it was revealed what the MoU said about RFAs, every one of us that DIDN'T go to law school went 'oh, we can't do this...'.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Yeah, but when it was revealed what the MoU said about RFAs, every one of us that DIDN'T go to law school went 'oh, we can't do this...'.

Not until a reporter said so

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Not until a reporter said so

Not until a reporter asked the league.

Kind of an important step that the team overlooked.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Not until a reporter said so

Because none of us were responsible for reading it. The GM was. And it's very clear how the rule would have and should have been applied to Ryan O'Reilly.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Not until a reporter asked the league.

Kind of an important step that the team overlooked.

Agreed, but let's not pretend every fan knew it before Feaster did was my point

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Not until a reporter asked the league.

Kind of an important step that the team overlooked.

IIRC Feaster said he was aware of it, but didn't feel like he needed to ask. If so, the question isn't his competantcy, its not doing his due dillgence. So I don't think there's a problem with the in-house legal team.

[Five-hole]

One more wordy post as I wanted to share my thoughts as a person who walked into the room expecting to not really like him (as I have my whole hockey watching lifetime), as a person who was against hiring him, and as a person who thought the Feaster firing was timed incorrectly and ultimately unnecessary.

In retrospect I'm a bit alarmed (about my own defenses) by how quickly he charmed the crowd and how quickly he won me over with personality. A lot of this job is (as a lot of legal jobs are, IMO): if you can't know what you're doing, at least convince everyone else you know what you're doing. So he's got that going for him. Having a charming, charismatic, respected, well-connected and even arrogant person at the top can certainly be an asset. (Compare it to the rather dour Feaster, for example. Or consider that we had an incompetent but well-connected, well-respected, and extremely arrogant Darryl Sutter at the helm who managed to improve the franchise with his sheer will and luck alone.)

His comment that being out of work pissed him off because he knows he's better than other guys who have GM jobs makes it plain that Feaster had no chance, however. Logistically, I realize as well that you need to know who you're dealing with when you call the Flames. If you have a puppet as the GM, as I think Burke's hiree will be, you need to at least know that from the outset. Feaster had the rug pulled out from under him anyway so you might as well fire him and make it official.

One thing I am far more confident in is that, while he will probably make some big moves, they won't be rash ones. If he were prone to make rash moves to get out of this situation I imagine he would have already taken some mediocre offer that you know pass his desk constantly. I do really believe that he believes he has the time to turn this franchise around and will do it properly, at least according to his strategy.

Whether that strategy works or not remains to be seen, but I like that he has one and appears to be ready to pursue it to the exclusion of all else. I think this should assuage the fears of those who believe our ownership meddles in hockey ops or doesn't have the patience to do a proper rebuild.

I am far more confident today than I was 24 hours ago that the Flames have a capable captain at the helm. So, woohoo! Go Flames Go!

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

No one is disputing that. They have some value and are obviously better than the basic stats.

But most hockey people would say that the value of stats just isn't anywhere near the value of having a good hockey mind watch a game and evaluate the players. Advanced stats will never replace scouting. Not even close. Some people want it to and think it will or already has. It won't.

Advanced stats are not a substitute for watching a player play multiple times. If you're good at evaluating hockey talent then watching the player will give you so much more than advanced stats ever could.

Therein lies your answer why. What kind of background do they have?
As the game evolves, management types will to and the "hockey" people will be phased out just as they have been doing in baseball and are starting to do in basketball. Hockey metrics aren't quite there yet, but to say that they will never be is naive.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Feaster maintains active membership in the Pennsylvania bar...]

Out of respect for Feaster, I would suggest deleting the link (which appears to show a home address and phone number?). Not saying that info isn't sitting out in the public domain (as it obviously is), but having a link to the former GM's personal contact information on a Flames message board might not be the greatest idea.

Burkie, on the other hand, probably needs to update his contact info with the MA bar

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Agreed, but let's not pretend every fan knew it before Feaster did was my point

Nobody's saying we were. We're saying that when we saw what Feaster knew about in advance, we all recognized that there was more than a little ambiguity in the wording, and it's something that demanded a phone call to the league office to confirm what they were doing was going to actually allow them obtain the player.

That this never happened is what so many find inexcusable.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Out of respect for Feaster, I would suggest deleting the link (which appears to show a home address and phone number?). Not saying that info isn't sitting out in the public domain (as it obviously is), but having a link to the former GM's personal contact information on a Flames message board might not be the greatest idea.

Burkie, on the other hand, probably needs to update his contact info with the MA bar

Didn't even notice that. Point taken and edited. Thanks for the heads up.

[sun]

Yeah, I google street-viewed Feaster's house. Looks kinda nice I guess, for a yop-gobbler.