[News] Calgary Flames' struggles wearing on honcho Brian Burke

[PeteLFan]

Sounds like he is going to make a splash and then hand it over to the new GM. Trading off UFA for picks and assets probably is not what he's talking about, more along the lines of trading a package of Sven etc for another prospect or established younger player.

[dammage79]

In the Herald article I read, I think he kind of tipped his hand a little and said the whole team needs an upgrade on size and skill, starting with the Defence. Leads me to believe that as much as I hate the idea of trading Russell, Brodie, Wideman, there's a good possibility that one or two or even all of them get shipped off. And that is where Burke will make his start.

Which then leads me to believe that outside of the 2013 picked players and 2014 picks are the only untouchables while Burke is manning the GM helm. He's going to listen to all offers on all players and maximize the return in every trade he makes regardless of the names going out of Calgary.

Which kind of sucks because if I had my way, I'd love to keep Russell, Hudler, Brodie. We still might but there's no mistaking the fact that there is no longer a lower probability of players we all like not being moved.

Will be interesting how this will all shake down.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Monahan is the only untouchable on the Flames IMO. Giordano and Brodie I'd be pretty hesitant to move though.

[sergei_makarov]

His comments about upgrading the defense first are interesting. Maybe he wants to do that because he is set on drafting one of the forwards and not Ekblad?

Wideman would get the most interest of the defencemen not named Giordano.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Still had more points in the playoffs than Kessel though.

LOL. He had 2 more points in 15 more games.

Kessel has 21 points in 22 career playoff games.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by strombad

Moon vs. BigTuna, it's like a dream come true!

On "the trade": Something worth noting - If comparing the two, Tyler Seguin is actually a better player at this point in his career than Phil Kessel at the same point in his career. It's marginal, but at best, the two are a wash.

In hindsight the trade isn't great for Toronto because they essentially traded someone who has progressed at a faster rate than Phil Kessel plus a blue chip defensive prospect. Had they not made the trade, they would've ended up with a similar player in a more crucial position PLUS an extra prospect. Taking into account the would'ves and couldves, that would then make players like Kadri and Gardiner even MORE expendable, but in this case you would be able to swap them for a scoring winger, something much more attainable than a 1st line center.

That said, those picks could've just as easily ended up as Gudbranson and Seimens, which aren't nearly at the same level as Seguin and Hamilton, so I still think it's a trade you make every time.

Arguable. At age 21 Kessel had a huge year himself.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Arguable. At age 21 Kessel had a huge year himself.

As I said, it's marginal, but it's absolutely true.

They both were traded after their first 3 seasons in Boston. In that time, Seguin had a higher PPG average than Kessel did, and scored almost the same amount of points despite playing in less games.

As far as post trade goes? In his first year as a Leaf, Kessel produced 55 points in 70 games (0.76PPG) while Seguin is only ten points back, having produced 45 points in only 46 games (0.98PPG).

Seguin this far has out scored Kessel at every step of their career, while playing at a more important position. Seguin > Kessel

Plus, considering the fact that the Leafs are only just beginning to be relevant in the playoff picture, the four year wait for Seguin would've been VERY worth the price of patience. As has been said, it's impossible to say if the Leafs would've even nabbed Seguin, but for the sake of the argument, it's pretty simple.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by strombad

As I said, it's marginal, but it's absolutely true.

They both were traded after their first 3 seasons in Boston. In that time, Seguin had a higher PPG average than Kessel did, and scored almost the same amount of points despite playing in less games.

As far as post trade goes? In his first year as a Leaf, Kessel produced 55 points in 70 games (0.76PPG) while Seguin is only ten points back, having produced 45 points in only 46 games (0.98PPG).

Seguin this far has out scored Kessel at every step of their career, while playing at a more important position. Seguin > Kessel

Plus, considering the fact that the Leafs are only just beginning to be relevant in the playoff picture, the four year wait for Seguin would've been VERY worth the price of patience. As has been said, it's impossible to say if the Leafs would've even nabbed Seguin, but for the sake of the argument, it's pretty simple.

I meant at their ages now. Kessel had his breakthrough at 21.

Seguin being better at 19-20 doesn't amount to that much. Kessel had some tough health issues his first couple of years in the league.

Although Kessel is the better playoff performer for sure. Whether you talk now or their first coupkle of years in the league

[Cali Panthers Fan]

OMG!!! Stop talking about Phil ####ing Kessel!!!

[Flash Walken]

STop talking to Big #####ing Tuna

[strombad]

But it's so fuuuuun

[Fire]

So if defense is a priority and he wants to get bigger.

Current line-up:
Giordano 6' 0" 200lbs - Smallish but doesn't play small and of course is the Captain. I think he's safe.
Brodie 6' 1" 182lbs - Below average size and does not play a physical game, but hasn't reached his potential yet.
Wideman 6' 0" 200lbs - Below average size. Tries to dish out the occasional big hit, but no one would call him a physical defenseman. Wouldn't surprise me if Burke moved him.
Butler 6' 1" 196lbs - Below average size non-physical defenseman. With Feaster gone I would be shocked if he was back.
Smid 6' 3" 209 - Good size and plays the physical game. A solid bottom pairing D-man. He's not going anywhere.
O'Brien 6' 3" 230lbs - He's occasionally in the press box, but being one of the few defenseman on this team with size I doubt he's traded.
Russell 5' 10" 173lbs - Impressive season for the Flames but tiny and a pending UFA. I think Burke needs to decide between Russell and Brodie. My guess is Russell gets traded at the deadline.

My prediction: Butler and Russell are not back next season. Everyone else stays.

Others:
Smith 6' 1" 197lbs - Below average size, not back next season to make room for another player.
Breen 6' 7" 224lbs - With his size he will be re-signed to a 2-way deal.
Billins 5' 10" 175lbs - Tiny guy with offensive talents. The Red Wings dumped him last season, I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames do the same.
Cundari 5' 10" 200 lbs - Another midget, but built much bigger. Not bad offensively as well. I think that gives him the edge over Billins to if only one of them stays.

My prediction - Smith and Billins will not be back.

[Badgers Nose]

I think Seiloff makes the team next year too.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I think Seiloff makes the team next year too.

Can't see it happening without some AHL time in. Maybe he stands out this year, but I doubt it

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Fire

So if defense is a priority and he wants to get bigger.

Current line-up:
Giordano 6' 0" 200lbs - Smallish but doesn't play small and of course is the Captain. I think he's safe.
Brodie 6' 1" 182lbs - Below average size and does not play a physical game, but hasn't reached his potential yet.
Wideman 6' 0" 200lbs - Below average size. Tries to dish out the occasional big hit, but no one would call him a physical defenseman. Wouldn't surprise me if Burke moved him.
Butler 6' 1" 196lbs - Below average size non-physical defenseman. With Feaster gone I would be shocked if he was back.
Smid 6' 3" 209 - Good size and plays the physical game. A solid bottom pairing D-man. He's not going anywhere.
O'Brien 6' 3" 230lbs - He's occasionally in the press box, but being one of the few defenseman on this team with size I doubt he's traded.
Russell 5' 10" 173lbs - Impressive season for the Flames but tiny and a pending UFA. I think Burke needs to decide between Russell and Brodie. My guess is Russell gets traded at the deadline.

Wow are you harsh on heights.

I really don't understand why Brodie and Wideman's names come up when talking about size. Wideman is stocky, and size and strength isn't his problem. Brodie is 6'1" which is a good enough frame to fill out. Weight and strength are important factors when considering a player's size.

Height gets rounded up or down, but I think the consensus is that 6'1" to 6'2" is considered average height with 6'2" being a good frame to build on. 6'3" and above are generally considered defensemen with good size (if they are 200+ pounds). 6'0" to 6'1" is considered below average height and anybody under 6'0" is considered short. In the end, it's also about how much you weigh, how strong you are, and how physical you are.

Take the Canadian Olympic team. 4 defensemen are listed at 6'1" with Subban listed at 6'0". All of these guys are listed at over 200 pounds. None of these guys are considered defensive liability and size is clearly not a problem when evaluating these defensemen's defensive capabilities.

I think it's important to consider that Burke has acquired a feature defenseman in every one of his stops. He drafted Pronger, he traded for Jovanovski, he signed Niedermayer and traded for Pronger, and he traded for Phaneuf. Burke is very much about building a team around star players and if he can he will build a team with two franchise defensemen.

[Poe969]

Why do people not want to trade some of our players like Brodie and wideman? I'm honestly confused about it. Our defense is prett terrible and people want to keep it together??? I honk not wanting to trade most of our players and wanting to re-sign everyone is as bad as intentionally tanking.

[cam_wmh]

I think Drafting/Acquiring two big stud defensemen should be our #1 priority going into the Spring.

Giordano & Brodie as 2nd pair, Russel & (Wideman?) as our bottom pairing.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

I think Drafting/Acquiring two big stud defensemen should be our #1 priority going into the Spring.

Giordano & Brodie as 2nd pair, Russel & (Wideman?) as our bottom pairing.

Are you talking down the road? You are not drafting a guy to become a top pair D at 18

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Why do people not want to trade some of our players like Brodie and wideman? I'm honestly confused about it. Our defense is prett terrible and people want to keep it together??? I honk not wanting to trade most of our players and wanting to re-sign everyone is as bad as intentionally tanking.

You keep trying to equate 'don't want to trade this guy' with 'want to keep the whole team together'.

They are not the same thing.

And just because the team is bad, that does not mean that each and every player is bad.

One thing at a time. Let's remove the ones that are helping the team the least. That definitely is not Brodie.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Can't see it happening without some AHL time in. Maybe he stands out this year, but I doubt it

ya, unless he can play and play well in the AHL this season, I don't see him on the Flames next year.