Craig's List 2014 Prospects

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by getbak

Gilmour wasn't part of the Hull trade.

Yeah I can't remember what we gave up for Gilmour. He was cheap though as from what was said, he was no longer wanted in St. Louis.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah I can't remember what we gave up for Gilmour. He was cheap though as from what was said, he was no longer wanted in St. Louis.

He was cheap, likely because he was being accused of having sex with a 14 year old girl and the Blues wanted to get rid of him ASAP.

[dammage79]

I kind of hope you have some media material to back that accusation up. Or something. Crap like that doesn't fly so well around here. Just ask the Burke rumor mongers.

Just saying. Not that I don't think it's true or not, just better back it up.

EDIT: In any case, in my humble opinion those kind of comments have no place in this thread. It's a draft thread, not a trade history thread or lets gossip about hockey players personal lives thread.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

For me history means squat.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So you believe you can get an Ekblad in a late round, good luck.

You could get a Weber, a Chara, a Keith, a Lidstrom, a Subban, a Yandle, a Giordano, a Markov, a Streit...all outside of the 1st round. Out of all the Norris Trophy winners in the last decade (there were 6 individuals), 4 of them (66%) were drafted outside of the first round.

Now in comparison, out of the Hart Trophy winners in the last decade (all forwards), only 1 of the 8 (13%) was picked outside of the first round. 5 (63%) of them were picked in the Top 3.

Maybe history should mean something a little more to you after all.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I kind of hope you have some media material to back that accusation up. Or something. Crap like that doesn't fly so well around here. Just ask the Burke rumor mongers.

Just saying. Not that I don't think it's true or not, just better back it up.

The accusation against Gilmour is public record. Grand jury didn't indict

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-12-...3_1_grand-jury

[lanny9]

He was accused, not formal charges but the parents went after him in civil case, don't know what happened there. I remember it like it was yesterday.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/28/sp...ndictment.html

[strombad]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I kind of hope you have some media material to back that accusation up. Or something. Crap like that doesn't fly so well around here. Just ask the Burke rumor mongers.

Just saying. Not that I don't think it's true or not, just better back it up.

EDIT: In any case, in my humble opinion those kind of comments have no place in this thread. It's a draft thread, not a trade history thread or lets gossip about hockey players personal lives thread.

I can't even beat SureLoss to providing a reference for my own post!

In any case, it's not gossip, I was just stating why the Flames got him for so cheap considering it was already being discussed. Worth noting.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

You could get a Weber, a Chara, a Keith, a Lidstrom, a Subban, a Yandle, a Giordano, a Markov, a Streit...all outside of the 1st round. Out of all the Norris Trophy winners in the last decade (there were 6 individuals), 4 of them (66%) were drafted outside of the first round.

Now in comparison, out of the Hart Trophy winners in the last decade (all forwards), only 1 of the 8 (13%) was picked outside of the first round. 5 (63%) of them were picked in the Top 3.

Maybe history should mean something a little more to you after all.

As has been said, good defenceman can be found in the later rounds but it isn't something I'd count on.

Defencemen take longer to develop, so scouting them can be more of a crap shoot for later picks but that doesn't take away from a top defensive prospect. Ekblad has been a top prospect since he was 15, he isn't some surprise. Sure there may end up being a better defenceman out there somewhere but are you going to gamble that you are the one who is going to find him?

[Jakester]

I think Ekblad should be the Flames first choice. There is no one comparable to Mackinnon, Barkov, or Drouin in this years draft; in terms of point production Reinhart, Bennett, Dal Colle, and Draisaitl are comparable to Monahan. It's also worth noting that Monahan played on a worse team than any of them.

Ekblad is comparable to Seth Jones as far as point productions goes. His plus/minus is considerably worse, but he plays for a middle of the pack Barrie Colts teams while Jones played for the league leading Portland Winterhawks. Jones was a better defender than Ekblad was at the same age, but I don't think the difference is as great as it might appear from glancing at their relative plus/minuses. Further, I think that when players are this closely ranked, organizational need should be taken into consideration. While the Flames aren't exactly flush with elite forward prospect, they need defense prospects more. Overall, if Ekblad is still on the table when the Flames pick, they should pick him.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Sure there may end up being a better defenceman out there somewhere but are you going to gamble that you are the one who is going to find him?

Well, if I was the GM, my plan of attack would be like this:

1. Almost always draft Forwards when you are in the Top 10 (especially in the Top 5) and you'll be more successful than with any other position, as they are the most predictable position. Always give priority to Center, no matter how many you have. Successful ones are very rare commodities outside of the 1st round, so don't waste your opportunity.

2. Use the shotgun approach with Dmen. Use more of your 2nds and 3rds, on Dmen than Forwards. The best Forwards are almost always in the Top 15 of the first round, but plenty of solid defenseman are available in the first 3 rounds. Outside of the draft, always be on the hunt for dmen in their early 20s who have a few years development under them, but haven't broken out.

3. Almost never draft goalies, and only in the 3rd round and on. They are way too unpredictable considering almost all of them are 6-8 years away from success. Focus on getting your goalies on the secondary market, once they are in their early/mid 20s. They tend to be cheap and you can let other organizations handle the early development. Also use shotgun approach...get a lot of them, and let them figure it out. Don't try to to be surgical.

4. Hoard and trade for as many 1st and 2nd round picks as humanly possible, every year. Drafting is hard enough, you need to increase your odds.

Drafting is never a sure thing...but I think you can increase your odds a bit if you follow historical trends. You of course still have to make sure your scouts pick the right individuals, but generally playing things positionally does seem to help your odds. Everyone can try to be the smartest guy in the room...but I prefer the couch-potato strategy.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Well, if I was the GM, my plan of attack would be like this:

1. Almost always draft Forwards when you are in the Top 10 (especially in the Top 5) and you'll be more successful than with any other position, as they are the most predictable position. Always give priority to Center, no matter how many you have. Successful ones are very rare commodities outside of the 1st round, so don't waste your opportunity.

2. Use the shotgun approach with Dmen. Use more of your 2nds and 3rds, on Dmen than Forwards. The best Forwards are almost always in the Top 15 of the first round, but plenty of solid defenseman are available in the first 3 rounds. Outside of the draft, always be on the hunt for dmen in their early 20s who have a few years development under them, but haven't broken out.

3. Almost never draft goalies, and only in the 3rd round and on. They are way too unpredictable considering almost all of them are 6-8 years away from success. Focus on getting your goalies on the secondary market, once they are in their early/mid 20s. They tend to be cheap and you can let other organizations handle the early development. Also use shotgun approach...get a lot of them, and let them figure it out. Don't try to to be surgical.

4. Hoard and trade for as many 1st and 2nd round picks as humanly possible, every year. Drafting is hard enough, you need to increase your odds.

Drafting is never a sure thing...but I think you can increase your odds a bit if you follow historical trends. You of course still have to make sure your scouts pick the right individuals, but generally playing things positionally does seem to help your odds. Everyone can try to be the smartest guy in the room...but I prefer the couch-potato strategy.

I would just trust my scouts....

if it was 2008 and the LA Kings or St. Louis Blues just decided no defenseman in the top 5 and bypassed Doughty or Piertangelo for Colin Wilson/Nikita Filatov (the next two forwards picked) things in the West would probably be a lot different.

[MrMastodonFarm]

For the most part I'm in totally agreement with you Table but I do disagree with the goalie approach. I think it's a smart idea to nab atleast one every 1.5-2 drafts. Definitely not in the first two rounds but pepper in a goalie pick in the later rounds. They do take longer to develop, yes.. but I think it's a good idea to get a goalie blender going and see who can rise.

The importance of a goalie is so different from what it was in the 90's, you just don't see as many true number ones as you used to.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah I can't remember what we gave up for Gilmour. He was cheap though as from what was said, he was no longer wanted in St. Louis.

Mike Bullard had 48 goals and 103 points for Calgary the season before he was traded to St. Louis for Gilmour. And he had 51 goals with the Penguins a few seasons before. Gilmour was the better overall player, but it's not as though the Flames gave up garbage to get him.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I would just trust my scouts....

You trust your scouts to give you opinions on individual players and how they compare to others, but they are not the ones planning and directing the master plan for your team. The GM sets the overall plan, the scouts give you specifics.

if it was 2008 and the LA Kings or St. Louis Blues just decided no defenseman in the top 5 and bypassed Doughty or Piertangelo for Colin Wilson/Nikita Filatov (the next two forwards picked) things in the West would probably be a lot different.

Ha, well sure, cherry pick the one year that it works out (and also one of the deepest drafts for Dmen ever) and ignore almost every other year where the forward is more valuable. There will always be outliers in any set of stats, but me, I'll bet on the much higher odds if all things are equal. I prefer the stupidly obvious way.

Btw, the dman drafted 15th that year has as many points as Doughty in over 100 fewer games. You don't see anyone even close to that when it comes to Stamkos and the forwards do you?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

For the most part I'm in totally agreement with you Table but I do disagree with the goalie approach. I think it's a smart idea to nab atleast one every 1.5-2 drafts. Definitely not in the first two rounds but pepper in a goalie pick in the later rounds. They do take longer to develop, yes.. but I think it's a good idea to get a goalie blender going and see who can rise.

Yeah, I agree. I'd still draft one here and there too. As you said, get a bunch and just see what happens. Most of my effort would be to try to replicate the Kipper scenario though in terms of going after underplayed/appreciated goalies in their mid 20s.

[sureLoss]

Reinhart with 2G 1A +1 in a 5-2 win over Swift Current
Draisatil with 1A -2 in a 4-2 loss to the Pats
Ekblad with 1A +3 in a 6-2 win over the Ice Dogs
Dal Colle and Bennett with nights off.

[sun]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

If the Oilers ever figured out that they could get a great dman if they traded one of their young Turks (Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov or whoever) then they'd be on the way to a better team. They don't because they have poor management. Flames traded Hull for Ramage, Gilmour, Wamsley and loom how that turned out for them.

BPA just makes sense. You end up with a glut of centres? Teams ALWAYS need a centre and you can trade for your needs. Pretty hard to try and pick positions for what you'll need 5 years down the road because circumstances always change.

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. The oilers are such an easy target because they are so awful. But I'm sure there are other examples.

I propose a new Godwin's Law wherein as an online discussion on CP grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving how not good the oilers are at the game of hockey approaches 1. sun's law.

A corollary would be as an online discussion on CP grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Sidney Crosby approaches 1. sun's law 2.

[sureLoss]

Corey Pronman on the pipeline show. Mostly about his thoughts on the top prospect's game
http://www.thepipelineshow.com/clips...nman_Jan18.mp3

Summary:

• Reinhart's performance at the top prospects game is the type of performance you usually expect from him (compared to an average showing at the WJC). Elite playmaker, extremely great puck handler, has been an offensive threat in nearly every WHL game he was played. Reinhart is an elite prospect there is no question about it. Can create offense just as good as anybody in this year's draft.
• For him there are only 3 prospects in the debate for #1 overall. Reinhart, Ekblad and Bennett.
• Ekblad was good at the top propsect's game but thought he had another level to show. There were a couple of uncharacteristic mistakes but not really an issue as it was one game. Even when Ekblad has a bad game he is still pretty good.
• Mason MacDonald was the best goaltender at the top propsects game. Very athletic, very quick. Doesn't have a real lot of playing time under his belt. But based on pure athletic upside, really liked what MacDonald showed.
• Ho-Sang is an interesting guy. Some games he looks like a top 10 pick. His speed, his hand, his playmaking ability are all high end and can make some unique plays. His decision making is not the best. Sometimes he shows good offensive instincts other times he makes brutal turnovers. That and his size are the main concerns is why he is a mid to late 1st round pick. Refused to comment about the character questions because it is a hard label to get rid of once it is applied to a player.
• Dal Colle is a great puck possession type player. His hands, his vision, the way he controls the tempo of the game, the way he distributes the puck while having a big frame are the reasons he is an appealing prospect. Not the quickest skater or the meanest guy on the ice. Is a top 5-6 prospect in this draft.
• Goldobin is one of the top offensive guys in the OHL this year (top 5-7 in OHL scoring). Dynamic offensive player, great hands, quick skating bursts, can see the ice really well. Not going to be the perfect 2 way player, not a penalty killer. People had the same issues with Mantha, but as Mantha showed at the WJC sometimes you don't need to have top defensive skills if you can put up points. Goldobin is about offense.
• Draisatil was average to fine at the top propsects game. On Pronman's draft board he is top 7-10. In terms of one game performance did not look to be on the same level as Reinhart, Ekblad or Dal Colle. Still really likes Draisatil, but at the WJC and top prospects game didn't have typical performance he has had in the WHL.
• Virtanen is 11-15 on Pronman's draft board. Not going to be the best puck player in terms of hands, puck distribution and possession ability. Skating ability is off the charts though. Real character guy, works really hard. While he is not going to be the best skilled player, can still make plays with puck to score goals and keep possession. Can gain zone easily with his speed and tenacity. Going to be a 1st round pick, but likely not a top 10 guy.

[sureLoss]

Great stuff on Goldobin:
http://ohlwriters.com/articles/nikol...e-sarnia-sting

OHLW: Having been in on almost 48% of the Stings' offense, it goes without saying he has elite offensive talent. How do you see him bringing that to the NHL level?

Ross: What Goldobin has accomplished as an OHL with such little offensive support is very impressive, as he sits as one of the OHL's top producers after leading all rookie scorers in 2012-13. He's proven that he can lead the offensive charge but also compliments teammates well sending slick imaginary passes for easy tap-in goals. At the next level, Goldobin could adopt a similar role as current NHLers such as Jordan Eberle or Patrick Kane - two players who can slow the game down with using exceptional puck handling abilities. He's the type of player who can buy extra time for teammates using his deceptive hands and projects as a future staple on the power play.

OHLW: You had the opportunity to watch Nail Yakupov in Sarnia extensively. Can you compare the two players and style?

Ross: Besides their Russian bloodlines and ability to put fans on the edge of the seat, the styles of Nail Yakupov and Nikolay Goldobin are drastically different. Yakupov relies on his blazing speed, quick release and one-on-one aggressive attacks to produces goals. Conversely, Goldobin's offensive game is based on patient calculated attacks by drawing opponents to him and then beating them with magician-like puck handling displays. Goldobin is capable of dangling in traffic and dissects the ice with surgeon-like vision. While both players are exciting to watch, each bring a different level of excitement to their games and both are equally successful at what they do.

Doubt Burke will draft him with the Russian factor, size, lack of 2 way play, and on ice work ethic being all issues. Larionov being the kid's agent also will probably be an issue down the line as well.

[Poe969]

I don't think I'd take him at this point. Ideally, we get Ekblad first and with our second I would LOVE to get Lemieux with our early second rounder. Depending on if we picked up another first rounder, I would like to take another chance on an offensive winger though.