Forward Scoring Even Strength

[kehatch]

I looked at the top 10 scoring forwards on the Flames and how many points were generated at even strength when they were on the ice.

1. Hudler (72)
2. Monahan (45)
3. Backlund (42)
4. Cammalleri (39)
5. Jones (37)
6. Stajan (34)
7. Stempniak (33)
8. Baertschi (28)
9. Glencross (25)
10. Colborne (25)

I also used Dobber's Hockey to determine which forward lines were the most productive at even strength.

1. Baertschi-Monahan-Hudler (14-points)
2. Baertschi-Monahan-Stempniak (8-points)
3. Cammalleri-Backlund-Hudler (8-points)
4. Galiardi-Backlund-Hudler (7-points)
5. Cammalleri-Colborne-Galiardi (6-points)

Finally I looked at forward production relative to time played, again at even strength.

1. Hudler
2. Monahan
3. Glencross
4. Baerstchi
5. Jones
6. Backlund
7. Cammalleri
8. Stajan
9. Stempniak
10. Colborne

Make your own conclusions. But a few points:

• Monahan/Baertschi is pretty productive.
• Hudler has been in a different place than any other forward.
• Our other vets have been meh EV
• Glencross hasn't been as bad as we have made him out to be, at least in terms of production
• Its nice to see Backlund, Baertschi, and Monahan near the top of the lists

[boogerz]

Hudler's contract looks better with each passing day. Great pickup

[strombad]

I think this confirms that, while Baertschi wasn't GREAT, the effect he had on Monahan was undeniable.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by strombad

I think this confirms that, while Baertschi wasn't GREAT, the effect he had on Monahan was undeniable.

But it's about him being a stronger player individually. We want him to become a great player that can create offense with other players. Not just one in particular.

[ricardodw]

If you want to show offensive talent and skill you need to do the same with PP stats.

On even strength Stempniak fans will say that he is playing against better checkers than Monahan and Baertschi.

On a PP play it is consistently the best offensive players against the oppositions best defenders. There should be very little variability in the quality of opposition or teammates.

[Aeneas]

So trade Cammalleri ASAP, and bring up Baertschi.

[RyZ]

But Baertschi CLEARLY isn't an NHL level player right now.

[Flash Walken]

Monahan is awesome.

[flamesfever]

It seemed obvious to me, very early in the season, that keeping Monahan and Baertschi together was going to hasten the development of both players. Their chemistry and skillset seemed to fit hand in glove.

I think in these low times we need something other than winning to get the adrenalin flowing... even if only for a few moments during the game. Sadly, that seems to be lacking at this point. I recall on many nights, during the Young Guns era, Fleury often provided the only excitement.

I think they should consider bringing back Baertschi.

[kehatch]

A few notes of my own:

• On Hudler: The 10/11 season was the last truly dominant season for Iginla. He was on the ice for 48% fo the teams offense. Hudler has been on the ice for 49% of the Flames offense this season. I am not suggesting that Hudler is Iginla. But he has been the forward driving the Flames offense this season.
• On Backlund: Given the amount of time this guy spent on the fourth line and given the defensive situations he has been put in the fact that he is third on the team in on ice EV production is pretty spectacular. I still don't think he is getting the credit he deserves. From fans, management, or coaching.
• On Cammalleri: For a guy whose only job is to score goals he has been surprisingly quiet. He hasn't put up as many points has he should of based on his ice time and circumstances.
• On Baertschi: He might not get on the scoreboard every game. But he was on the ice when the points were going up. If the Flames aren't going to give him ice time than the AHL is the place for him. But he should be on the Flames getting ice time.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If you want to show offensive talent and skill you need to do the same with PP stats.

On even strength Stempniak fans will say that he is playing against better checkers than Monahan and Baertschi.

On a PP play it is consistently the best offensive players against the oppositions best defenders. There should be very little variability in the quality of opposition or teammates.

I disagree that the PP is a better indicator of talent. I am more interested in the players that can produce EV. But since you asked, points when the player is on the ice on the PP:

1. Hudler (26)
2. Cammalleri (17)
3. Monahan (15)
4. Stempniak (14)
5. Glencross (11)
6. Colborne (10)
7. Backlund (9)
8. Baertschi (8)
9. Jones (7)

Points relative to PP ice time:

1. Baertschi (by a fair margin)
2. Stempniak
3. Glencross
4. Hudler
5. Colborne
6. Monahan
7. Backlund
8. Cammalleri (not very productive given ice time)
9. Jones

[PIMking]

I didn't know we actually scored goals...

[Bourque's Twin]

I would be very happy if the Flames got a 1st round pick for Cammalleri.

[FlamingHomer]

Colborne's placing in those stats vs. his ice time concerns me. Other than shoot outs I don't see where he is contributing much.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Bah. Thanks to the OP for the effort but all that really says is


Good players
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Hudler
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Suck line------------
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Rest of the flames

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by RyZ

But Baertschi CLEARLY isn't an NHL level player right now.

Baertschi has fallen off a cliff in the AHL. Looks like the mismanagement and mind games have finally got to him.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by kehatch

1. Baertschi-Monahan-Hudler (14-points)
   

The first benching of Baertschi and the breaking up of this line was Hartley's dumbest move all season. There was no reason for that first benching.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Baertschi has fallen off a cliff in the AHL. Looks like the mismanagement and mind games have finally got to him.

I completely agree. He is in danger of being ruined. The Kadri tough love approach isnt the right approach for every player. I bet Sven is praying for a trade and I wouldn't blame him for a second.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Baertschi has fallen off a cliff in the AHL. Looks like the mismanagement and mind games have finally got to him.

People keep forgetting, Sven's development right now has nothing to do with how he's performing in comparison to his Flames peers. The Flames are a crap team, it's not to look decent against your peers when your peers are this forward group.

Sven's development is all about how he's doing versus his potential, and the Flames need to make decisions on him based on his potential, not how he's doing versus Joe Colborne. Clearly they felt he needed to work on some things to make him the best pro he can be when he reaches his prime, and felt the AHL was the best spot for that. They are trying to make him the best player they can for himself and the Flames. If they'd given up on the Kid and priority one was exiting him from the organization, he'd be playing in the NHL right now putting up mediocre points to raise his trade value as much as possible.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by RyZ

I completely agree. He is in danger of being ruined. The Kadri tough love approach isnt the right approach for every player. I bet Sven is praying for a trade and I wouldn't blame him for a second.

I think you are right about what Sven's doing (although shows just how smart he is, if he thinks playing like a goof on the farm is going to get him traded, his value is at an all time low and basically he's made himself untradable so the Flames might as well keep him and see if he turns it around), but who would you blame? The Flames? So you feel the Flames should just allow Sven to do what he pleases so he's not sad?

Sorry, Sven's career is just starting, he needs to figure out that everyone around him likely knows a lot more than him about what it will take, put his head down and work on what the organization wants him to, and he needs to stop worrying about what everyone else on the team is doing, being asked to do or how they are being treated and trying to figure out if it seems "fair" to him. Life's not fair, and all they guy needs to do his play hard in the areas his coaches ask each night and he'd be fine. Seems like he's more worried about figuring out how his situation compares to everyone else's.