"Got land? Thank an Indian."

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

It's done - move on. Tear up the treaties, end the corruption, neglect, abuse, poverty and bigotry. Assimilate.

White privilege, how does it work?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SebC

I don't see renegotation as a solution. We'd just be replacing one set of inequalities with another.

I still think the wheat board is a good analogy. Should the government have the right to end the wheat board, if it has been previously agreed that the wheat board can only be disbanded with consent? I think the government should have that right. The right of society as a whole to make democratic changes trumps the contract.

So you'd be okay with government tearing up contracts for land purchased for the extraction of minerals by private companies, if said extractions proved to have negative effects on the say the collective's environment?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well I guess I just thought that anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Canadian history would have some idea of what I'm getting at, but let's just start with systemic inequality/violence and neglect by the state:

- Residential schools
- Highway of Tears
- The Pickton case where VPD/RCMP did dick all to act when the majority of women being killed were aboriginal
- Saskatchewan RCMP practices (numerous)

Those are four right off the top of my head. Do I need to go into things like Oka as well?

I'm well versed in history, thanks. You were wording your accusations in the present tense, so I was more interested in those ones.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I'm well versed in history, thanks. You were wording your accusations in the present tense, so I was more interested in those ones.

How present were you looking for? Three of those examples are relevant to the last 10 years at least.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by rubecube

White privilege, how does it work?

I basically grew up on three reserves growing up in northern Saskatchewan. I've seen first hand the complacency and lack of ambition these kids have because they have nothing to strive for. I've seen the rampant alcoholism and drug abuse, the teenage pregnancy and suicide and you don't even want to hear stories or the neglect and abuse. I lived a stones throw away from it all and seen it destroy good kids. So go #### yourself with your holier than thou attitude blasting me about white privilege. I met and worked with non treaty Indians who know what's killing their culture - it's reservations, corrupt bands and handouts.

[rubecube]

I guess I also find it pretty funny that a lot of posters who still hold a grudge against the federal Liberal party because of the NEP are telling another group of people to get over much more drastic, damaging, and recent actions perpetrated by the state.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So you'd be okay with government tearing up contracts for land purchased for the extraction of minerals by private companies, if said extractions proved to have negative effects on the say the collective's environment?

The world and the way contracts are written has changed a lot in the last CENTURY. You think it's possible when those contracts were signed the state of reserves today was probably something that couldn't be foreseen???

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I basically grew up on three reserves growing up in northern Saskatchewan. I've seen first hand the complacency and lack of ambition these kids have because they have nothing to strive for. I've seen the rampant alcoholism and drug abuse, the teenage pregnancy and suicide and you don't even want to hear stories or the neglect and abuse. I lived a stones throw away from it all and seen it destroy good kids. So go #### yourself with your holier than thou attitude blasting me about white privilege. I met and worked with non treaty Indians who know what's killing their culture - it's reservations, corrupt bands and handouts.

Sure, man. Again, let's just ignore all of the subtexts that lead to these issues. By the way, way to keep the argument civil and classy.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

The world and the way contracts are written has changed a lot in the last CENTURY. You think it's possible when those contracts were signed the state of reserves today was probably something that couldn't be foreseen???

The same thing could be said for numerous private ventures but this board would howl if the government arbitrarily started tearing up its contracts with businesses.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Sure, man. Again, let's just ignore all of the subtexts that lead to these issues. By the way, way to keep the argument civil and classy.

Yah because your reply was intended to anything but insult?

[PsYcNeT]

Now come on, we all know the solution to every problem ever is in how much you're willing to bootstrap yourself out of it.

[rubecube]

And that's nice that you grew up on reserves and had non-reserve natives who felt a certain. I currently volunteer with a group that does extensive work with these people and many of them would disagree with that statement. When you have generations of people who've been abused, some pretty crappy patterns and cycles tend to emerge. This isn't distinct to aboriginals.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Yah because your reply was intended to anything but insult?

Why don't you explain how your original response was anything but a display of white privilege? Telling a group of people to "get over" a set of circumstances you couldn't possibly understand from personal experience, and failing to see the additional issues they face in the form of discrimination, etc., is the epitome of white privilege.

[Coys1882]

I'd really like to know Rubecube what the government should be doing? Throw more money at it? Give them what they want? Give them more autonomy?

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Why don't you explain how your original response was anything but a display of white privilege? Telling a group of people to "get over" a set of circumstances you couldn't possibly understand from personal experience, and failing to see the additional issues they face in the form of discrimination, etc., is the epitome of white privilege.

It's not something I say lightly - I don't believe I suffer from "white privilege" - I know growing up I had friends from the Rez I played hockey with from a young age - until they got their band payout - poof gone, instant drug and alcohol issues and kids by 18. Does it happens all parts of Canada? Yes, but not to this level, not to this percentage. I believe reserve life causes this - I wish it wasn't like that. I wish these kids dads worked at the mill with mine so their lives didn't follow that path. This didn't happen to the natives in town who didn't have treaty rights - they had to work, they had to learn.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

It's not something I say lightly - I don't believe I suffer from "white privilege" - I know growing up I had friends from the Rez I played hockey with from a young age - until they got their band payout - poof gone, instant drug and alcohol issues and kids by 18. Does it happens all parts of Canada but not to this level, not to this percentage.

I agree that there is an absence of leadership in many of these bands that lead to things like that, but it's largely a result of abuses suffered at the hands of the government. To your previous point, no I don't think more money is the solution. I do think that there needs to be some form of sincere effort from the federal government to work with these people and not attempt to railroad them anytime it's opportunistic to do so.

EDIT: I'd also argue that we are starting to see some of the fruits of providing education to aboriginals pay off. There are number of well-educated First Nations people that are going back to the reserves to attempt to improve conditions.

[schteve_d]

I work for a native owned company - three entrepreneurs who used the opportunities afforded them to the fullest. They all achieved journeyman status in different trades and then came together to start what is now a very successful company employing many native and non-natives.

They grew up on a reserve, all of them.

Where did they go wrong, Rubecube?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

I work for a native owned company - three entrepreneurs who used the opportunities afforded them to the fullest. They all achieved journeyman status in different trades and then came together to start what is now a very successful company employing many native and non-natives.

They grew up on a reserve, all of them.

Where did they go wrong, Rubecube?

What the hell does that have to do with anything I said? Nice strawman.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I'm by no means an expert on Aboriginal rights. I always struggled with the issue when I was in Canada and I'm experiencing the same thing in Australia. At the heart of this debate, IMO, is racism.

Racism generally implies:

1. a belief involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

In order to remove systematic racism there has to be, at it's core, an understanding that there is no inherent superiority among races, that all races are treated equally under the law and then as a result, eventually, the hatred or intolerance of another race or races would eventually fade (one would hope).

I think most non-idiotic people believe that the white race isn't naturally superior to the aboriginals and that we don't have the right to rule them. I would suggest that the large majority of Canadians fall into the category of "non-idiot". Also, while I could be mistaken, it seems like the government of Canada has come a long way to remove the indoctrinated discrimination from the system, although I don't think anyone would argue that task is complete. It seems that most of the unequal treatment of natives in Canada seems to originate from the natives themselves, or more accurately, it's a natural echo of the reservation system that was put in place. Most native leaders seem to encourage their people to stay on the reserves. I can understand why they would want to encourage this: in order to keep their populations and culture in tact. My understanding is that natives get a significantly reduced government payout if they leave the reserves to join "mainstream" Canadian society, although I haven't looked into it to verify. Either way, this seems to encourage the very notions of "seperate" and "different" which is a short stroll to "unequal". Obviously, there is also an issue of serious corruption on many reserves.

A lot of people talk about "the native issue" but I don't recall seeing any concrete suggestions for how to actually improve the situation. Usually, the responses to these issues are pseudo-racist jokey comments or glib holier-than-thou white man devil retorts. I don't think this particular hoodie helps the conversation either. So, for those of you that are more educated in this issue than me, what would you suggest?

I just don't see an end in sight.

I am, and I want to commend you for the critical thinking displayed in your post. While the Canadian government has reached out to help close the gap (an Australian term) in the past decade, the areas where we see the most blatant and overt racism seems to beyond their control, namely the justice system.

Aboriginal canadians are failed at every level of the justice system, from arrest to conviction. They are more likely to be arrested with more charges, granted higher bail, and disproportionately be convicted to jail time. They make up less than 15% of the Canadian population and account for over 50% of all inmates.

They have the highest birth rates in the country and the highest % of SIDS. They have a lower life expectancy then average Canadians, and a higher arrest % whether they live on or off the reserve. Now I'd love for any of you can tell me that they are offered the same opportunities as white Canadians with a straight face. This is why land rights are still an issue. It's a battle they have leverage in when living a society which does not want them.

[scottish_flame]

Got electricity, running water, and a house paid by taxpayers. No need to thank us