Brian Burke and the Business of NHL Event

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's not his intention, but the reality of the team we can ice if we don't go foolishly get a bunch of free agents this summer. That doesn't mean that you should be fine with losing and listless play

Well he either creates a team intended to battle for last place - and guaranteed to not only accept but excel at losing - or he doesn't.

The flames will spend ~20m (annual) in free agents or acquisitions over the summer, and fill 5-10 roster spots. They will not be at the bottom of the league unless they intend it.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don't understand why Burke's comments about Gaudreau should be controversial. Players that small do not have a good chance of sticking in the NHL, regardless of how skilled they are. That's a simple fact.

It's not controversial, it's mostly just a cold splash of reality to people who only look at the stat sheet when evaluating prospects. That's hard to take for some.

Personally I still like Gaudreau, despite his size. He has the uncanny ability to go to open areas and avoid damage that might limit a player his size. It'll be an uphill battle and I could easily see 2-3 seasons of AHL/NHL spot duty as he bulks up some but I think he'll make it. Very smart, very tricky player.

But at the end of the day, a guy that size can scores two goals a game in College and it still means nothing until he makes it to the next level.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Well he either creates a team intended to battle for last place - and guaranteed to not only accept but excel at losing - or he doesn't.

The flames will spend ~20m (annual) in free agents or acquisitions over the summer, and fill 5-10 roster spots. They will not be at the bottom of the league unless they intend it.

Overpaying for free agents is a very short sighted way to improve your team and will hurt you in the long run. I sure hope this isn't Burkes plan. People need to be patient. We're not even through a single year of the rebuild yet and we started virtually from scratch. We are extremely asset poor right now and likely will be for a few more years. Hopefully Butke can turn some UFAs into picks at the deadline and we can have a strong draft to help get the ball rolling.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

^ Honestly I am all for signing the Jagr's of the game. Nothing wrong with a few hired guns to dish out and scoop a few nice picks in 15.

Edit: To one year deals that is. Even if they are slightly inflated lets see the brass buy some picks.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by lifetimefan

I'd rather support Burke's philosophy of size and grit mixed with skill, rather than all skill no grit.

I see, so you've decided to suppliment your cherrypicking with putting words in mouth... because I never said "all skill no grit" or "all skill no size". You can have gritty guys and you can have big guys... they just also have to have significant enough skill along with the grit (the two aren't mutually exclusive).

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Overpaying for free agents is a very short sighted way to improve your team and will hurt you in the long run. I sure hope this isn't Burkes plan. People need to be patient. We're not even through a single year of the rebuild yet and we started virtually from scratch. We are extremely asset poor right now and likely will be for a few more years. Hopefully Butke can turn some UFAs into picks at the deadline and we can have a strong draft to help get the ball rolling.

That's not what I mean. The flames have something like a dozen players signed for $30 m next year. They must add contracts and players. They will not be good in any case, but how bad they will be is a choice.

[sun]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

As many in the media pointed out, Feaster/Weisbrod gave off the impression they thought they were smarter then everyone else. It didn't work out very well for them because in the end, they were pretty bad at their job.

It's funny everyone keeps pulling this out, when Brian Burke comes across as the most smug, arrogant know-it-all of the bunch.

Feaster actually made it a repeated point that he brought in "hockey people" smarter than him, didn't he?

[Stanley]

Man who cares about who's more arrogant, I'm less worried about getting fleeced in trades going forward, and no more ROR crap or Jankowski type picks...

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by sun

It's funny everyone keeps pulling this out, when Brian Burke comes across as the most smug, arrogant know-it-all of the bunch.

Feaster actually made it a repeated point that he brought in "hockey people" smarter than him, didn't he?

Burke definetely comes across as smug and arrogant........but I don't think he comes off as a know it all. Feaster definetely gave the impression that the Flames "knew" more about what was going on than others, but that didn't really bother me either.

Some swagger from the top is all good by my, in either case............I just have a lot more trust in Burke then Feaster. Burke seems like a legitimate "A" player, gives this organization some credibility..........Feaster seemed like someone playing GM, like you felt like you were taking a shot with the underdog as him as your GM. Always felt like the Flames "settled" on Feaster, where as it feels like the went out and got "their man" with Burke..................for better or for worse, that just makes me feel better.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by sun

It's funny everyone keeps pulling this out, when Brian Burke comes across as the most smug, arrogant know-it-all of the bunch.

Feaster actually made it a repeated point that he brought in "hockey people" smarter than him, didn't he?

Again you can do that, if you are good at what you do. Really thats the case anywhere. Nobody is going to say "well while Brian Burke is a better GM then Feaster, Feaster isn't as arrogant, so despite him being a horrible GM, we should keep Feaster" ... sometimes I think people are too sensative about how a GM (or coach) sounds to the media, and thinks thats some sort of determining quality.

However, if your peers in the NHL - i.e. other GMs - don't respect you, like Feaster by the sounds of it...... you won't be able to do your job very well, example: you end up getting mediocre quality for franchise players.

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by Parallex

...See, It's easy to cherry-pick to find some confirmation bias for a pre-formed opinion.

You must not have watched any Flames games this season. The team is soft, despite having some not so small guys.

McGrattan (6.04)
size and grit, not much skill

Colborne (6.05)
size but he doesn't use it (no grit), some skill

Kanzig (6.07)
size, not much skill

Monahan (6.02)
good mix of all 3

Jones (6.02)
If this refers to Blair, he's soft and consistently on the IR. Tries hard, still fails.
If this refers to David, he's got size but is scared to give or take a hit & won't go to the dirty areas. Doesn't try hard, still fails.

Galiardi (6.02)
Has size and doesn't use it, just skates a lot.

O'Brien (6.03)
Probably the 2nd lowest hockey IQ on the team (and not by much), overplayed #7D that makes terrible decisions.

These guys might all be over 6' but 5 the 7 are soft, or not smart enough to be anything better than a liability. They don't protect the puck well, nor do they help to create space.

Feaster left this team in a dog's breakfast all over the kitchen floor, and Burke is going to need a shovel and a lot of garbage bags to clean it up.

Monahan and Colborne are probably the only guys who will survive the rebuild. The rest are roster filler courtesy of Feaster.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Parallex

However, let's reserve judgement for actions rather than words. Feaster traded for, signed or drafted guys like:
McGrattan (6.04)
Colborne (6.05)
Kanzig (6.07)
Monahan (6.02)
Jones (6.02)
Knight (6.02)
Galiardi (6.02)
O'Brien (6.03)


...See, It's easy to cherry-pick to find some confirmation bias for a pre-formed opinion.

This reminds me of the debate we used to have on CP that we have a lot of youth (Boyd, Nystrom, Pardy, Prust, Dawes, Sjostrom, etc).

Like age, when we talk about size, what matters is size of players who play a lot of minutes, not filler guys. Its great he added McGratton, O'Brian, Knight and David Jones (ok not really) but did it "make" our team bigger? No, we still get beat up by our rivals who are 5'11... thats what matters.

Overall, the Flames are small, easy to play against, easy to play against and easy to beat up. Thats what Feaster did that Burke is trying to change. I don't think we need a team full of goons, but Burke never only acquired meatheads. And in the long term, Burke isn't going to be GM anyways.

[killer_carlson]

I think the most interesting comment is the willingness to retain salary to increase trade value of some players.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think the most interesting comment is the willingness to retain salary to increase trade value of some players.

I am glad he said it. I have long believed flames ownership would be willing to do this. If they are so willing to spend to the cap to win why not take advantage of this method? I guess Feaster must have said he won't do it and there were a few posters who claimed Flames ownership was opposed.

I read a hf thread where someone posted that flames ownership was furious retaining Hagman's salary on re-entry on a recent proposal where the flames retained some cap. It was all BS. Feaster valued cap space and refused to retain on the Bouwmeester deal. Berra and Cundari are likely gone after this year so we traded a team Canada Dman for a 22nd pick

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am glad he said it. I have long believed flames ownership would be willing to do this. If they are so willing to spend to the cap to win why not take advantage of this method? I guess Feaster must have said he won't do it and there were a few posters who claimed Flames ownership was opposed.

I read a hf thread where someone posted that flames ownership was furious retaining Hagman's salary on re-entry on a recent proposal where the flames retained some cap. It was all BS. Feaster valued cap space and refused to retain on the Bouwmeester deal. Berra and Cundari are likely gone after this year so we traded a team Canada Dman for a 22nd pick

Ouch on the Jaybo trade although I can see Berra coming back, Cundari was a terrible pickup. I can't believe they let Feaster handle the most important deadline in team history

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Ouch on the Jaybo trade although I can see Berra coming back, Cundari was a terrible pickup. I can't believe they let Feaster handle the most important deadline in team history

"ouch, the cat is still making singing in my heart"

[Wolfman]

People need to pull the reigns back on the Gaudreau hype. Let's see him play in the NHL before we call him the saviour. He plays NCAA hockey right now. Sure he's skilled, but c'mon people...let's give our heads a shake. Just because Theo Fleury and Marty St.Louis panned out doesn't mean this kid will.

All I'm saying is, let's stop putting him up on a pedestal until he proves his worth.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am glad he said it. I have long believed flames ownership would be willing to do this. If they are so willing to spend to the cap to win why not take advantage of this method? I guess Feaster must have said he won't do it and there were a few posters who claimed Flames ownership was opposed.

I read a hf thread where someone posted that flames ownership was furious retaining Hagman's salary on re-entry on a recent proposal where the flames retained some cap. It was all BS. Feaster valued cap space and refused to retain on the Bouwmeester deal. Berra and Cundari are likely gone after this year so we traded a team Canada Dman for a 22nd pick

I have long argued that the Flames' ownership group is not 'cheap', and don't have any problems spending money to make this team better. This does show it.

With regards to the Bouwmeester trade - I think that perhaps the offer the Blues made (if they even were interested in having the Flames retain salary) was probably not good enough. Perhaps Feaster assumed that he could do more in the off-season as teams struggled to get under the cap, but then there was a plethora of amnesty buyouts.

Feaster misjudged the market for cap, or perhaps GMs pushed harder for their ownership groups to buy-out players themselves. It was a fairly unexpected event at the amount of dollars bought out.

At this point, I don't think there is going to be any teams buying cap room. Season is half over, so there just isn't as pressing a need to do so now.

Thanks for reporting on what was said guys - I didn't have any thanks left. Very informative!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

It was all BS. Feaster valued cap space and refused to retain on the Bouwmeester deal. Berra and Cundari are likely gone after this year so we traded a team Canada Dman for a 22nd pick

Well I'm not so sure we'll give up on Berra that quickly. And I do think he has showed some tremendous upside and could be very good if he irons out the kinks in his game over here.

If Berra turns into a #1 then the trade looks okay. But if he doesn't then I'd agree, Feaster got terrible value there. Cundari was basically completely redundant when we signed Russell and Billins this off season as it seems he's worse than both. And all three continued the small trend that Feaster somehow got stuck in. Byron, Cammalleri, Russell, Cundari, Billins, Hudler all 5'10 or smaller and all acquired under Feaster and all while we had Gaudreau as a prospect as well. Some of them are good players but a roster with too many just can't compete.

The Bouw deal may end up worse than Iginla deal. We didn't even have to trade him at that deadline unless the package was insane because he still had a year left on his deal. Annoying that he was so dead set against eating salary in the deal. And very reassuring that Burke realizes how much of an asset that might be and plans to use it.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well I'm not so sure we'll give up on Berra that quickly. And I do think he has showed some tremendous upside and could be very good if he irons out the kinks in his game over here.

If Berra turns into a #1 then the trade looks okay. But if he doesn't then I'd agree, Feaster got terrible value there. Cundari was basically completely redundant when we signed Russell and Billins this off season as it seems he's worse than both. And all three continued the small trend that Feaster somehow got stuck in. Byron, Cammalleri, Russell, Cundari, Billins, Hudler all 5'10 or smaller and all acquired under Feaster and all while we had Gaudreau as a prospect as well. Some of them are good players but a roster with too many just can't compete.

The Bouw deal may end up worse than Iginla deal. We didn't even have to trade him at that deadline unless the package was insane because he still had a year left on his deal. Annoying that he was so dead set against eating salary in the deal. And very reassuring that Burke realizes how much of an asset that might be and plans to use it.

Perhaps you've heard of a guy named Emile Poirier?
You kind of missed him in your trade evaluation.

Edit: And if Berra turns into a #1 then the trade is a massive win, not "okay".