E-cig ettiquete

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I think you should not be allowed to drive a car then. I should not have to breathe in the fumes from your car that are far worse than some guys e-cig. See, I can make a ridiculous coment too. There is nothing that is going to hurt you from an e-cig.

I actually drive an electric car, so stay away from the coal fired gen plant. True story.

And yes, there are probably bad things in an Ecig exhaust.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

A an ex smoker I can appreciate how hard it is for smokers to give up the habit, it is a huge addiction. It just seems like those posts above are not so much about the effects of an e-cig as much as the hatred toward smokers. Nobody should have to breathe in cigarette smoke but the vapour doesn't even last, it just dissapates. I think it is more of a I don't use an e-cig so why should you get to thing.

If the vapour just dissipates, where do you think it goes?

I think this is more of a I don't want to breath in anything that is associated with the smoking industry type thing, thank you very much.

[terminator]

So where do you guys buy your ecigs from? I'm hoping to get on the boat today.

[CaptainYooh]

It's simply amazing to me how quickly and aggressively Canadian general public is willing to demand and implement bans of personal freedoms. Anything we don't like, we want to ban and, what's more, we feel absolutely righteous to do so. We used to be a nation admired for its fairness and tolerance. Whatever happened to the fundamentally right "live and let live" principle?

I don't smoke cigarettes nor e-cigs and I don't find their smell particularly pleasant. However; I might have a say in my own private home or private office (if I own it) about their use or no use; but I am willing to tolerate it in a public space, because I do not have that right. People that want to enjoy their cigarette or e-cig have the same rights as I do to enjoy the public space, because they also own it. I don't buy crap about negatively affecting other people's rights to enjoy that public space. It's irrelevant. I suffer when people use strong perfumes or emit strong body odour, as it gives me migraines; but it is not my right to demand they don't. Hence; I need to adjust. Same with firepits, smoking in public spaces, loud music, mandatory wearing bike helmets, junk food etc. When the state intrudes too much into personal liberties it makes the society worse, not better, even when the intentions are good.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

It's simply amazing to me how quickly and aggressively Canadian general public is willing to demand and implement bans of personal freedoms. Anything we don't like, we want to ban and, what's more, we feel absolutely righteous to do so. We used to be a nation admired for its fairness and tolerance. Whatever happened to the fundamentally right "live and let live" principle?

I disagree with everything you say (the quoted part)

Mods, ban this guy.

[ranchlandsselling]

Until it's proven to be of no detriment to anyone's health these should not be allowed in enclosed public places. Sorry, don't trust smokers or the industry.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

It's simply amazing to me how quickly and aggressively Canadian general public is willing to demand and implement bans of personal freedoms. Anything we don't like, we want to ban and, what's more, we feel absolutely righteous to do so. We used to be a nation admired for its fairness and tolerance. Whatever happened to the fundamentally right "live and let live" principle?

I agree, except for chicks weight-lifting or playing hockey. That crap is taking personal freedom too far.

[calumniate]

Well on the good side of things - if e-cig etiquette is one of the top things on your mind these days, your life is pretty 'frickin' rosy

[Diemenz]

Just a though on these.

Bought my dad a high quality Vaporizer (like a ecig but not a piece of crap) in August of last year. Quick background : my dad is 65 and has smoked since he was 16. Since August he has not had a single smoke, not one. Over the course of the last 6 months he has gone from 24mg of Nicotine down to 8mg of Nicotine. His next step will be down to 4mg and that will come in March. His goal is to get down to 0mg and then start to lower the amount of times he uses it until it becomes a "stress day" puff here and there.

To be honest because of his success I have absolutely nothing bad to say about them and promote the use of them greatly when the purpose it to quit smoking.

I think most people get upset because there is a large group of 20 somethings that walk around with these and talk about the awesome "vape" they had just picked up while wearing their matching scarf and toque indoors......with a V-neck T.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

It's simply amazing to me how quickly and aggressively Canadian general public is willing to demand and implement bans of personal freedoms. Anything we don't like, we want to ban and, what's more, we feel absolutely righteous to do so. We used to be a nation admired for its fairness and tolerance. Whatever happened to the fundamentally right "live and let live" principle?

I don't smoke cigarettes nor e-cigs and I don't find their smell particularly pleasant. However; I might have a say in my own private home or private office (if I own it) about their use or no use; but I am willing to tolerate it in a public space, because I do not have that right. People that want to enjoy their cigarette or e-cig have the same rights as I do to enjoy the public space, because they also own it. I don't buy crap about negatively affecting other people's rights to enjoy that public space. It's irrelevant. I suffer when people use strong perfumes or emit strong body odour, as it gives me migraines; but it is not my right to demand they don't. Hence; I need to adjust. Same with firepits, smoking in public spaces, loud music, mandatory wearing bike helmets, junk food etc. When the state intrudes too much into personal liberties it makes the society worse, not better, even when the intentions are good.

There has to be a balance between net public good and individual freedoms. If you look at regular smoking you could clearly demonstrate harm coming to a large group of the public by a small group of individuals.
Each one of these has to be looked at from a net good. Be it chicken coops in back yards, or keeping tigers, or camp fires at some point due to our spacing your actions impact others. And if that impact is beyond some reasonable measure the state needs to step in.

One of these was clearly smoking in public enclosed spaces. The state was right to step in. In terms of E-cigs I don't think it is a big deal based on current available research of it being no harmful or at least no more harmful than outside air to the second had recipient.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by fotze

I wonder how many lives this could have saved if invented years ago.

But think of those cigarette companies! They'd be so hard done if those lives were saved.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Whatever happened to the fundamentally right "live and let live" principle?

I think you have the principle misunderstood.

The first place I looked online defined 'Live and let live' as "Cliché not to interfere with other people's business or preferences." It certainly is not to simply accept anything anyone does...That principle would be anarchy.

Do what you want as long as it does not interfere with my business or preference is how most people would understand Live and let live.. In other words, if I don't want to breath in the exhaust of your E-cig, I shouldn't have to.

On a side note, I had some loser smoking one of these things a second before the gate of Legoland, and she turned to blow the 'smoke' away from her mom and daughter and exactly into my mouth and at my family. I could taste something on my tongue (gross) and it instantly reminded me of what I could taste when a ex coworker of mine talks to me immediately after having a smoke, just from his stinky breath. He had a heart attack. The same thing would occur with a second guy at my office that smokes, he too had a heart attack and recently quit smoking. Based on this one event of inhaling an E-cig, I do not want to do it again and should not have to.

I don't believe for a second it is just water vapour...is there any research proving this? What I breathed in was terrible.

I do believe this must be better than smoking, so I am totally supportive, I just don't need to inhale it myself.

[RyZ]

I puff an ecig everyday and I generally just puff it at home or in the car. I think its all about common courtesy when it comes to puffing in public. If you use where it is not affecting anyone else, go to town, but puffing in an enclosed space with others or around kids is not cool.

[Ice]

If they're used as a tool to quit smoking, I'm OK with them. But outside, in your own car or in your own house where you would normally smoke. They're not odorless and they can be unpleasant for other people near the "smoker."

A guy was smoking an E cig next to me at a hockey game, all game, every few seconds. It was nasty. It had a chemical smell and a sort of fruity grape smell. It wasn't as offensive as cigarette smoke, but after an hour several people around him started asking him to leave to "smoke" but he refused. It was irritating to the eyes and throats of some people. I'm very sensitive to smoke but it didn't irritate my throat the way second hand smoke does, but it was irritating to smell that horrible vapor all night.

He bought tickets from the season ticket holder next to me, who informed him if he smoked in his seats he would never sell him tickets again. Problem solved.

[J Diddy]

The users look ridiculous...so let them be used wherever...I need a good laugh from time to time.

[arsenal]

i have been smoking an e-cig for the past month and haven't touched nor wanted to touch a regular cigarette ('analog') for about a week now. It takes some time to get adjusted to the way that e-cigarettes deliver nicotine compared to analogs. I have 'vaped' at my cubicle during that month and have not had any complaints from any of my co-workers. There are things that users can do if in public places to reduce the amount of vapor that is emitted. Thinks like holding their breathe a little longer, doing a double "toke" (inhale air after taking a puff). All these things can and probably should be done in public places.

I don't think that there should be a ban on them in public places. I don't think that they should be treated the same way as analogs. I enjoy vaping, and I enjoy not having to go outside in the winter to get nicotine (this could change come summer). I have vaped at bars, work, the mall even a movie theatre and never had a single person complain. Had someone had an issue I would probably not do it around them.

There was a study commissioned last year by the CASAA (The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association study can be found at the bottom of the article) http://blog.casaa.org/2013/08/new-st...micals-in.html that states that the vapour emitted by e-cigarettes are not harmful to bystanders (in an out door setting) and that the levels in an enclosed space (office, mall etc) fall well below levels of concern to those in the immediate vicinity.

Even when compared to workplace standards for involuntary exposures, and using several conservative (erring on the side of caution) assumptions, the exposures from using e-cigarettes fall well below the threshold for concern for compounds with known toxicity. That is, even ignoring the benefits of e-cigarette use and the fact that the exposure is actively chosen, and even comparing to the levels that are considered unacceptable to people who are not benefiting from the exposure and do not want it, the exposures would not generate concern or call for remedial action.

The existing literature tends to overestimate the exposures and exaggerate their implications. This is partially due to rhetoric, but also results from technical features. The most important is confusion of the concentration
in aerosol, which on its own tells us little about risk to heath, with the relevant and much smaller total exposure to compounds in the aerosol averaged across all air inhaled in the course of a day. There is also clear bias in
previous reports in favor of isolated instances of highest level of chemical detected across multiple studies, such that average exposure that can be calculated are higher than true value because they are “missing” all true
zeros.

That being said, I am all for regulation. I want to be sure the that juice I am using is in fact just 4 ingredients (Nicotine, Propylene Glycol (PG), Vegetable Glycerine (VG) and flavouring). I have heard of reports of people getting "extra" ingredients, but that could have been years ago and from a non-trusted vendor. You should be of legal age in your country to purchase them, shouldn't be marketed towards children etc, and shouldn't be taxed at the same level as alcohol or cigarettes.

[firebug]

BBC Discovery looks at the science behind e-cigs (no easy answer).

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/...0909-2000a.mp3

[Cowboy89]

I'm fairly torn on e-cigs.

On one hand I can see the massive benefit they can have towards getting existing smokers to quit and the ensuing health benefits and lower health expenditures.

On the other hand I can totally imagine that 10-15 years from now there probably will end up being way more 'vapers' among the junior high and high school demographics than smokers in the present day. Not sure this is a trend that will be positive on that front.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I'm fairly torn on e-cigs.

On one hand I can see the massive benefit they can have towards getting existing smokers to quit and the ensuing health benefits and lower health expenditures.

On the other hand I can totally imagine that 10-15 years from now there probably will end up being way more 'vapers' among the junior high and high school demographics than smokers in the present day. Not sure this is a trend that will be positive on that front.

not saying this would be a good thing, but would it be a bad thing? are there any know negative effects of vaping? or is it we don't know long term effects yet? (that is fine if so, cant ignore possible problems) but seems to me that there are no ill effects with vaping, nicotine while being addictive is no worse for you than caffeine, or alcohol for that matter, and caffeine certainly isn't a restricted substance for jr/sr high school kids.

[Tron_fdc]

Isn't "vaping" the same thing as blasting off an air freshener/cologne/random smell all the time?

I don't know anyone who does it.