Warren Rychel unloads on Hockey Canada's World Junior Showing

[timbit]

Originally Posted by fotze

That rant was as scatterbrained and directionless as the team looked.

Do not underestimate the wrath of an unhappy hockey parent.

Exactly what a great many sound like.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by fotze

Oh I know, I have been one and seen them. Imagine the stakes get just a tad higher at that level as well.

Also, Rychel looks pretty rough. Should carry a defibrillator around with him.

Pretty sure Sutter and Rychel played together with the Blackhawks.

[moon]

Originally Posted by macrov

When will people start to understand that Brent Sutter is just a really ####ty coach who was lucky enough to coach junior teams that were stacked in terms of talent.

That team in 2006 is likely the weakest Canadian team in the last 20 years and he had them win Gold fairly easily. It is the first and only team I can remember that pre-tournament was picked to finish out of the medals. For all the whining about this team it was at worst looked at as the 2nd best team this year going in behind Sweden.

It would be nice if for once people explained exactly what was poor in the coaching this year rather than just throw out the bitter Brent is a bad coach garbage.

The main issue with this year is that the 94 year was terrible for Canadian forwards and therefore this was the 2nd youngest team since the Program of Excellence started. That is not Brent's fault.

As for Rychel it sounds like a whole lot of garbage 20/20 hindsight to me and perhaps it sounded more coherent when he said it but reading it it sounds like the rantings of a crazy person. He really jumps from here to there. I think he was mad they lost, mad his son and some buddies didn't have a great tournament or didn't go and wanted to rant without having any real issues to bring up.

[moon]

Originally Posted by macrov

Maybe he's a bad coach who just got lucky once or twice.

Well then it would have to be at least twice in the two times he went undefeated in the WJHC, then another lucky time he won the Memorial Cup with Red Deer, lucky in the Super Series to win that, lucky in NJ twice to get to the play-offs.

He should buy a lottery ticket because he has had some crazy good luck in his coaching career alone.

[macrov]

Uh-huh...the 2006 team featured garbage like toews, Marc staal, steve downie, letang, barker, and cogliano. How did they win? I have no idea.

In NJ he coached stanley cup contending playoff teams (not favorites, but contenders) and couldn't get them out of the first round. In Calgary he inherited a playoff team and couldn't get them into the playoffs.

The "super series" was a joke as was the 2005 wjhc. The teams were so stacked that it doesn't really tell you much about the coaching. To use those as examples to further an argument that he's a great coach is the definition of stupid.

[moon]

Originally Posted by macrov

Uh-huh...the 2006 team featured garbage like toews, Marc staal, steve downie, letang, barker, and cogliano. How did they win? I have no idea.

First off put that group against other years and then see if you still think it was a great roster for Canada. You just used Cam Barker as an example of why it was a great roster. Toews was 17 that year.

Downie, O'Marra, Pyatt and Boyd were the leaders up front for Canada. Cogliano, Letang, Staal were all 18 year olds playing in a 19 year old tournament.

You can try and spin it all you want but that was a bad team by Canadian standards and why they are the only team in many, many years not expected to medal.

Just because you hate Sutter for no reason doesn't mean that wasn't a great job of coaching by him.

In NJ he coached stanley cup contending playoff teams (not favorites, but contenders) and couldn't get them out of the first round. In Calgary he inherited a playoff team and couldn't get them into the playoffs.

In NJ he got them over 100 points each season and Martin Brodeur submarined their chances in the play-offs. Unless you think Sutter told Brodeur to let in 2 stinkers with a 1:30 left in the game hard to pin that on coaching.

I think it is fairly easy to see the Flames talent was vastly overrated and that Brent was far from the problem.

The "super series" was a joke as was the 2005 wjhc. The teams were so stacked that it doesn't really tell you much about the coaching. To use those as examples to further an argument that he's a great coach is the definition of stupid.

It was an example of all the times he won. It was the 7th or 8th on his list of accomplishments that you said were luck. If he was so lucky this "joke" would have been about the only thing he could accomplish.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by macrov

Uh-huh...the 2006 team featured garbage like toews, Marc staal, steve downie, letang, barker, and cogliano. How did they win? I have no idea.

In NJ he coached stanley cup contending playoff teams (not favorites, but contenders) and couldn't get them out of the first round. In Calgary he inherited a playoff team and couldn't get them into the playoffs.

The "super series" was a joke as was the 2005 wjhc. The teams were so stacked that it doesn't really tell you much about the coaching. To use those as examples to further an argument that he's a great coach is the definition of stupid.

You called him a ####ty and bad coach. You are wrong.

Nobody called him a great coach.

You are wrong again.

Carry on.

[sergei_makarov]

Brent Sutter is very, very over-rated.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I've added more people to my ignore list in the last 2 months than I did in my first four years on the site.

Welcome to the club macrov!

[moon]

Originally Posted by sergei_makarov

Brent Sutter is very, very over-rated.

Based on what?

Most people here talk about how he is garbage so they aren't overrating him.

Others talk about how he is a good junior coach and based on his record hard to argue with that.

The only time I could say he may have been 'overrated' is possibly going into this tournament but he was 13-0 so hard to overrate that.

[sergei_makarov]

Originally Posted by moon

Based on what?

Most people here talk about how he is garbage so they aren't overrating him.

Others talk about how he is a good junior coach and based on his record hard to argue with that.

The only time I could say he may have been 'overrated' is possibly going into this tournament but he was 13-0 so hard to overrate that.

He's had some success in juniors, but he simply isn't an NHL coach in my view. His New Jersey record is misleading and in Calgary is an accurate reflection of his ability as an NHL coach teaching adults. Didn't he send out 5 defencemen once on the powerplay?

I'd disagree though and say it's about 50-50 split "here" on their opinions of Sutter's abilities as an NHL head coach.

[moon]

Originally Posted by sergei_makarov

He's had some success in juniors, but he simply isn't an NHL coach in my view. His New Jersey record is misleading and in Calgary is an accurate reflection of his ability as an NHL coach teaching adults. Didn't he send out 5 defencemen once on the powerplay?

I'd disagree though and say it's about 50-50 split "here" on their opinions of Sutter's abilities as an NHL head coach.

50-50 is 50% think is in awful and 50% think he is a good to okay NHL coach. I haven't heard many (any?) posters say he is a great NHL coach.

Why is his New Jersey record misleading?

I think in Calgary he got exactly what would be expected from most coaches to get from that team, probably better than most actually.

So I guess if you think saying Sutter is a good coach is overrating him maybe he is but that seems a little harsh to me.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by sergei_makarov

He's had some success in juniors, but he simply isn't an NHL coach in my view. His New Jersey record is misleading and in Calgary is an accurate reflection of his ability as an NHL coach teaching adults. Didn't he send out 5 defencemen once on the powerplay?

I'd disagree though and say it's about 50-50 split "here" on their opinions of Sutter's abilities as an NHL head coach.

I spent almost all of Sutter's tenure with the Flames trashing him. I just can't blame him for the complete suckage of Canada this year though. Dumba looks like a bust. Sutter's world jr record speaks for itself. This thread isn't about his NHL tenure.

Brent is even on the record saying Team Canada doesn't spend enough time together.

“When you’re in this, you see it first-hand, you see where the skill sets are in some of these other countries, the speed of the game they play at,” said Team Canada head coach Brent Sutter. “It’s pretty astonishing how some of these teams have grown in that area.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...tter_says.html

“It’s not about x’s and o’s. It’s about developing your skills, your skating,” said Sutter. “You see how some of these teams in Europe have done a remarkable job with that. It’s something in our country we have to evaluate.

I also can't agree that 2006's roster was worse than this year's. That team had guys like Toews, M. Staal, Letang, Bolland, etc.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I also can't agree that 2006's roster was worse than this year's. That team had guys like Toews, M. Staal, Letang, Bolland, etc.

Toews was 17, Staal and Letand were 18 and Bolland is far from the usual top player for a Canadian WJHC team. People may not like hearing it but as we saw this year it is hard to rely on 17 and 18 year olds in this tournament.

Plus for this year Reinhart, McDavid, Ekblad, Horvat, Pouliot, Dumba, Reinhart all could end up looking much better than that group. So a little early to say that group was better.

[Haplo]

"There was really no camaraderie between the players in my personal opinion, as a hockey guy sitting there, whether it was my son or wasn't. But it didn't seem like the cards were in line for us to win a medal. So that's my honest opinion and maybe people disagree, but it just never seemed to feel confident, watching the team play with zip or play with zest. People say, 'well you have to play more physical' but you know how it's called over there — as soon as you lay a finger on somebody the whole crowd yells, you're in the box."

Yeah well, I think 90% of the audience at Canada's games were canadian fans. So much for that excuse.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by moon

Toews was 17, Staal and Letand were 18 and Bolland is far from the usual top player for a Canadian WJHC team. People may not like hearing it but as we saw this year it is hard to rely on 17 and 18 year olds in this tournament.

Plus for this year Reinhart, McDavid, Ekblad, Horvat, Pouliot, Dumba, Reinhart all could end up looking much better than that group. So a little early to say that group was better.

Yeah, true enough. I just don't think the 2006 roster should be labeled some ragtag bunch of only scrubs, they had some decent players. I didn't know Kris Russell was on that squad.

Boyd & Comeau though.......

[moon]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Yeah, true enough. I just don't think the 2006 roster should be labeled some ragtag bunch of only scrubs, they had some decent players. I didn't know Kris Russell was on that squad.

Boyd & Comeau though.......

They were only ragtag scrubs compared to other Canadian teams that are basically 1 or 1a. every year. This team was probably more of a 3/4 that year which is fine for every other country and not anything to sneeze at but for the standard that the Canadian WJHC program has set it is a step below the other teams.

At the very least it is far from the all-star surefire Gold medal team that many characterize it as.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by moon

They were only ragtag scrubs compared to other Canadian teams that are basically 1 or 1a. every year. This team was probably more of a 3/4 that year which is fine for every other country and not anything to sneeze at but for the standard that the Canadian WJHC program has set it is a step below the other teams.

At the very least it is far from the all-star surefire Gold medal team that many characterize it as.

2005 was probably the most talented roster Canada has ever iced though. Tough to match that.

[spetch]

Knowing somebody very very well who played under Sutter said he is an awful coach/GM. He backed it up with locker room stories (won't tell them here), but he also pointed out that Sutter inherited a good crop of players they he did not draft in Red Deer to win the memorial cup. Look at what his team as done when he was at the helm of drafting, once his crop of bantam drafted players starting becoming WHL'rs they took a nose dive in the standings.

[sergei_makarov]

Originally Posted by spetch

Knowing somebody very very well who played under Sutter said he is an awful coach/GM. He backed it up with locker room stories (won't tell them here), but he also pointed out that Sutter inherited a good crop of players they he did not draft in Red Deer to win the memorial cup. Look at what his team as done when he was at the helm of drafting, once his crop of bantam drafted players starting becoming WHL'rs they took a nose dive in the standings.

Not surprised at all to hear this.