Rock Bottom

[djsFlames]

Yeah, honestly, if Burke is truly an "impatient" guy and wants a quick fix, the quickest would be to suck the hell out of the next season and a half and pickup a game changer in McDavid. There will be no faster route to legitimate improvement, outside of our own prospects breaking out in a big way ahead of schedule.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Yeah, honestly, if Burke is truly an "impatient" guy and wants a quick fix, the quickest would be to suck the hell out of the next season and a half and pickup a game changer in McDavid. There will be no faster route to legitimate improvement, outside of our own prospects breaking out in a big way ahead of schedule.

I sincerely hope that hes patient. Impatience costs assets and rarely leads to results.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yup - it is an oversimplification but a successful re-build hinges on sucking at the right time.

No, a successful rebuild hinges on making astute decisions at the draft table - wherever you pick - and in trades and on the free agent market.

Frankly, if we need to deliberately lose for the rest of this season and next to get McDavid before we can figure out any way to build a quality team, that should be a point of embarrassment for this franchise.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, a successful rebuild hinges on making astute decisions at the draft table - wherever you pick - and in trades and on the free agent market.

Frankly, if we need to deliberately lose for the rest of this season and next to get McDavid before we can figure out any way to build a quality team, that should be a point of embarrassment for this franchise.

I agree with this. Only make moves that benefit this team. I don't want to suck for years at a time. Why can't we have the best of both worlds? Draft smart, develop smarter than the rest and give prospects a chance to succeed. The flames haven't been very good at that in the past. It seems that vets were always given ice time even when it wasn't warranted.

We can only wait to see how the next 6 months play out. I don't think we will be in the McDavid conversation in 2015, there will be improvement after this season.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

96 - 79 pts
97 - 67 pts
98 - 72 pts
99 - 77 pts
00 - 73 pts


13/14 - 36 pts mid season


At this point we maybe splitting hair on suck-it-tood.

They also had a pretty good first half all things considered. I don't think you can expect this group to get 36 points in the second half, especially if there's a sell-off of expiring contracts at the deadline. I think 26 is probably the upper limit.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I agree that the Oilers got their 1st overall picks at the worst time of the last decade while the Flames are kind of doing it at the right time although the Oilers are still sucking themselves into contention.

Yeah and as much as I like Monahan he's not likely going to be the game changer that McDavid should be. If the Flames were to get McDavid fans will look back at this short term pain as well worth it. I just hope Burke doesn't try to do too much this offseason to quick fix the team into playing themselves out of the equation for first overall.

I think Monahan will be an important piece because of how seriously he takes the game and his overall play. He's a big part.

I do think sucking this year isn't great - I'm not a fan of this draft even at the top end.

A first or second overall pick this year would be great but it doesn't get me really excited.

[foshizzle11]

^ wow that is interesting. Lowest point total in a season most likely this season than during the dark days of the late 90s, early 00s.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

You've got some positions mixed up. Plus not way SOB gets moved into the top 4, nor Galliardi gets resigned. Sven is a left winger, Jones would be on the right. Glencross left.

Point wasn't to project specific lines - I just wanted to show on paper how bad the team is.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, a successful rebuild hinges on making astute decisions at the draft table -

Difficult to do - an 18 year old draft is a crap shoot. The best policy is to have many picks and high picks, to improve your chances.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think Monahan will be an important piece because of how seriously he takes the game and his overall play. He's a big part.

I do think sucking this year isn't great - I'm not a fan of this draft even at the top end.

A first or second overall pick this year would be great but it doesn't get me really excited.

ya, but an Ekblad or Reinhart would be just fine out of this year's draft. I wouldn't have a problem adding either of these guys. I just really don't think we will get McDavid, I don't think we will win the lottery even if we did have a 25% chance, just our luck.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, a successful rebuild hinges on making astute decisions at the draft table - wherever you pick - and in trades and on the free agent market.

Frankly, if we need to deliberately lose for the rest of this season and next to get McDavid before we can figure out any way to build a quality team, that should be a point of embarrassment for this franchise.

I'm not saying deliberately lose - but I also don't think they should try very hard to compete next season.

They do need to deliberately lose - the team is bad enough to lose on its own merit.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I'm not saying deliberately lose - but I also don't think they should try very hard to compete next season.

They do need to deliberately lose - the team is bad enough to lose on its own merit.

While it is obviously something of a false dichotomy, if the Flames aren't trying to improve their team this off-season, then yes, the organization is plotting to deliberately lose next. It's the kind of thing we accuse the Oilers of doing while demanding changes to the draft rules as a result.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Based on contracts expiring this is what the Flames line-up looks like right now for next season

Ramo
??? (probably Berra)

Arguably the worst duo in the league

Brodie-Gio
Wideman-SOB
Smid-Rookie

Ugh.

Hudler-Backlund-Glencross
Jones-Monahan-Sven
Galiardi-Colborne-Byron
McGratton-???-Bouma

Some rookies in the mix there up front: Jonny, Knight, Granlund etc. But this is probably the worst forward group in the league, and by a fair margin.

So I see this team, on paper, being far and away the worst in the league. Frankly it is close to expansion team bad.

They should finish last.

C'mon, do you really think the flames will have that roster to start the year?

I think they will churn a half a dozen guys or so. They mightn't be improvements long or short term but they will be Burke guys at least.

I truly don't know what Burke is up to or intends, but I don't see him becoming Craig "pause" button v2.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

96 - 79 pts
97 - 67 pts
98 - 72 pts
99 - 77 pts
00 - 73 pts


13/14 - 36 pts mid season


At this point we maybe splitting hair on suck-it-tood.

Not really.

Comparing points then and now is not the same with all of the 3 point games. The Flames have never had a top 5 pick. This year will finally be that year and so will next year.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

is he really that good? I haven't really seen anything from him but I am skeptical.

He's 16 and has 52 points in 32 games. Good enough for 16th in OHL scoring even though he missed a bunch of games while he was at the World Juniors. So yea, he's pretty good so far.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by fotze

Pittsburgh deliberately lost to get Mario as did Colorado to drop to compete for Mackinnon.

That was one of the clearest dives in sports history.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by fotze

Pittsburgh deliberately lost to get Mario as did Colorado to drop to compete for Mackinnon.

I was too young to really get what happened in Pittsburgh.

Colorado tanked last year at the end, but did not start the year with a roster designed to be as awful as possible.

I don't think anyone but Edmonton and now maybe Calgary and buffalo next year have ever done that in recent years anyway

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

C'mon, do you really think the flames will have that roster to start the year?

I think they will churn a half a dozen guys or so. They mightn't be improvements long or short term but they will be Burke guys at least.

I truly don't know what Burke is up to or intends, but I don't see him becoming Craig "pause" button v2.

Who did the Flames replace Iginla Bouwmeester Tanguay and Kipper with this year?

Were they upgrades?

Do you honestly think they will get more productive short term replacements, for the Vets they are going to move for picks, next season?

Won't happen...and as a result they will be markedly worse.

This team needs to continue taking its long overdue medicine and get healed in a sustainable way.

The Flames won't need to deliberately lose.

[Joborule]

Flames have scored 100 goals.

Sabers have scored only 75.

Holy crap, do you ever have to really suck to be the worst. This is what's likely in store for next season. On paper, it'll get worse before it gets better, but we should be having some positives that are a work in progress that makes things look better.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

C'mon, do you really think the flames will have that roster to start the year?

I think they will churn a half a dozen guys or so. They mightn't be improvements long or short term but they will be Burke guys at least.

I truly don't know what Burke is up to or intends, but I don't see him becoming Craig "pause" button v2.

Cripes of course they won't. But they don't really have a lot of ammunition to improve it either.
Compare that lineup with any other in the league based on who they will have next season "on paper". The Flames are starting well behind almost every organization.

This team projects to be awful. They have a bad core and they don't have the assets to improve it.