So yeah.. We need to make a change, what should it be?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by JobHopper

So why did you call me a troll then yesterday when I suggested that the Flames use some of their stockpiled picks and prospects to bring in a current top 6 player?

People here think it's stupid to trade your prospects, but what about Tim Erixon, he didn't turn out so great now did he?

What prospects do they have that could return a current top 6 player? And once you answer that, is it smart to trade any of those players? No it's not.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

The answer to whom would be the replacement for Hartley may be Burkie's old chum Ron Wilson.

Carlyle should be available soon

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by UKflames

He's not from Europe so please don't blame us for his coaching

Apart from that I agree with everything you said.

Yeah, I know where Hartley is from. It's the style he's paying and some of the tactics he's employing. They are torn from the Swiss league playbook. It's horrible, horrible, horrible hockey.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by New Era

Burke needs to get his head out of his ass and realize this is 2014, not 2004. His truculence garbage is over done. I was happy when he dumped a useless Jackman on an unsuspecting Anaheim for a 4th round pick. I was pissed when he turned that 4th round pick into an even more useless Westgarth. I mean, WTF? I've seen some useless hockey players in a Calgary Flames uniform, some of which have been embarrassing, but Westgarth is the bottom of the barrel. No, he's the slime living on the bottom of the barrel. He is an embarrassment to the Flaming C and should never have been traded for. I don't mind the losses, but lose with players that have potential to get better. Westgarth is a rodeo clown.

You have this a little confused. Feaster (not Burke) traded Jackman to Anaheim for a 6th rounder (not a 4th) and then Feaster traded a 6th rounder (again, not a 4th) for MacDermid (not Westgarth). Westgarth was acquired by Burke for Nemisz.

[JobHopper]

Originally Posted by codynw

What prospects do they have that could return a current top 6 player? And once you answer that, is it smart to trade any of those players? No it's not.

You take a roster player or 2 and add a prospect or pick. Not like I need to say this but the Flames are going to have to give up something to get something in return.

Moving players and creating an identity is what a rebuild is about.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by JobHopper

So why did you call me a troll then yesterday when I suggested that the Flames use some of their stockpiled picks and prospects to bring in a current top 6 player?

People here think it's stupid to trade your prospects, but what about Tim Erixon, he didn't turn out so great now did he?

Because they don't have a stockpile of prospects or picks that are worth anything or worth losing.

You don't have to be a genius to figure it out, just stop.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by JobHopper

You take a roster player or 2 and add a prospect or pick. Not like I need to say this but the Flames are going to have to give up something to get something in return.

Moving players and creating an identity is what a rebuild is about.

Trading picks and prospects for veterans is why they're in this mess in the first place.

[Skaloper]

Originally Posted by codynw

Trading picks and prospects for veterans is why they're in this mess in the first place.

Poor prospect management/development got us in this mess. Not necessarily trading the picks and prospects but not managing what we have to its full extent.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by six pack

Still amazing how a talent like jaybow can be so good in st. Louis but so bad here and people aren't questing the system Hartley uses when evaluating our talent. Face it we have a coach who will not adopt as well.

I thought Bouwmeester looked good in Hartley's system, thus the decent return at the deadline for a guy that many campaigned to buy-out to start the year. Sutter's system on the other hand was Bouwmeester kryptonite.

Playing with Pietrangelo doesn't hurt his cause either...

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by codynw

You have this a little confused. Feaster (not Burke) traded Jackman to Anaheim for a 6th rounder (not a 4th) and then Feaster traded a 6th rounder (again, not a 4th) for MacDermid (not Westgarth). Westgarth was acquired by Burke for Nemisz.

You're right. MacDermid was an even bigger waste of a contract. Same type of player (truculent!) and just as useless. Thank you for the correction. That's how badly I'm losing interest in this team.

[JonDuke]

"We need to make a change. What should it be?"

The logo!

[Jordan!]

I only see Hudler and Wideman as being desirable for other teams.. the rest of the team is garbage - at least those are the only two guys who The Flames have that i'd want on the Coyotes.

Giordano and Monahan not included

[devo22]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

I thought Bouwmeester looked good in Hartley's system, thus the decent return at the deadline for a guy that many campaigned to buy-out to start the year. Sutter's system on the other hand was Bouwmeester kryptonite.

Playing with Pietrangelo doesn't hurt his cause either...

exactly. Wasn't there a rumour that the Blues offered D'Agostini and a 2nd at the 2012 draft? IIRC quite some people on here would have taken that at the time. It's only because of Hartley that his play improved and Feaster got a 1st and two prospects.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by timbit

Personally, not one iota surprised at where the team is trending.

Was quite taken aback by their start.

As hard as it is to believe, they should be markedly worse next season.

Stay the course. Draft many, draft well and develop well. Trade well to garner as many picks as possible.

This is not going to be pretty.

This....anybody thinking or expecting anything else was caught up in the surprising start. This team is right were they should be...other teams have ramped up, mix in a couple injuries and just given 'er ain't getting it done.

Anybody expecting a quick turnaround to this should probably just take a vacation from the Flames and CP for a bit.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by JobHopper

I posted this in the PGT, I suppose it fits here too.

I believe we're at a crossroads here and breaking point so to speak now.

What has to happen is a coaching change and a big deal for an impact player, even if the Flames include some draft picks and current prospects.

I like Hartley but it's just not working.

You still have to ice a team that can play the scheduled games in the NHL here.

Like friggin' Yoda or Kreskin you are.

[LChoy]

That depends, does the Dome have bacon wrapped hotdogs yet?

Otherwise, this is what a rebuild looks like. The hope is that it will ultimately get better.

[19Yzerman19]

LOL at Butler being worth a second rounder. From an outside perspective, some of you guys are out to lunch on this. If you get a third for him I'll be pretty surprised. Most likely he's a lottery ticket or an add-on.

On the other hand, some people are underrating Cammalleri's value. He's definitely worth a playoff team's first rounder (i.e., 18-30th overall pick).

Stajan's probably worth a 2nd to a team that's short on C depth, I'd think.

In the offseason, a couple of UFA signings targeting dudes in the Nashville / Phoenix mode would be feasible. Legwand, Bolland, Girardi, Ott are all UFA this summer. Throwing some money at those guys may be worthwhile. The issue is trying to sell UFA talent on mentoring a re-build, obviously. But it's pretty important, imo, to avoid Edmonton syndrome - if this team's going to suck for a couple of years, the right people need to be in the room to avoid complacency.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

Like friggin' Yoda or Kreskin you are.

You should see the lovely private message I got. You may think he's like Yoda, but he apparently thinks he's Tony Soprano.

He's delightful.

[CliffFletcher]

We'll see significant roster turnover at the deadline and in the off-season. And we'll see more again next year. Ken Hitchcock commented about the Flames rebuild earlier in the season and said you'll see 1/3 roster out and 1/3 in this year, next year, and again the year after that. Then you have a rebuilt roster.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by JonDuke

"We need to make a change. What should it be?"

The logo!

A little off topic, but if we were to make the old Atlanta Flames A our logo and change the name to Alberta flames or something, i'd be cool with that.e