Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) Software

[SeeGeeWhy]

I manage a small manufacturing business that is 50 years old, and has single digit million dollar turnover - and our systems need a lot of work. Rather than build out complex, isolated and highly manual systems, I've been contemplating a move into the scary world of ERP.

Are there any ERP for small-medium business gurus out there? We are a high mix environment, with a lot of customization.

I've been reading up mostly on Microsoft Dynamics NAVision and Sage ERP... but would love to hear some advice from those in the trenches.

Cheers!

[RedMileDJ]

The company I work for changed from an old program called Everest, to a new ERP called NetSuite.

I can tell you that NetSuite is fast and easy to use, from a sales person's point of view. I don't know the ins and outs of it. I just know that I enjoy using it, find it fast and can easily access it from any of my mobile devices.

Hope this helps.

[RedMileDJ]

I should add: I've seen a lot of customization added since we started using it. Seems like it might be what you are looking for.

Edit: We are a company of 63 people.

[Badgers Nose]

Talk to Captain Crunch - he is an expert on ERP

[CaptainCrunch]

We work with 3 ERP systems

Microsoft Dynamics SL - Extremely powerful and flexible and user definable. Can handle multiple different types of organizations

Deltek Vision - A great ERP system for professional services companies focused on project management

Acumatica - A lot like Dynamics SL with the added bonus that its more web based which gives user better options for remote accessibility. Very strong and customizable. has a great integrated CRM as well

Add on all of the ERP's that we carry are build for the small to medium to mid large organizations.

Both NAV and Sage are pretty strong products, however we would need to have a deeper discussion to see if they're the right fit, same with Netsuite.

[CaptainCrunch]

pm'd

[oilyfan]

Regarding the actual system I will let CC give you advice.

I will give you advice that before you decide on which software you buy you should do some work to map some of your key business processes, i.e financial, production processes, accounting processes. I have been part of many implementations where the business was made to fit the system, as opposed to the other way around, it was a nightmare. Now when you do map your processes you will probably find that you could do things differently, and probably better. That's where the system can help.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Regarding the actual system I will let CC give you advice.

I will give you advice that before you decide on which software you buy you should do some work to map some of your key business processes, i.e financial, production processes, accounting processes. I have been part of many implementations where the business was made to fit the system, as opposed to the other way around, it was a nightmare. Now when you do map your processes you will probably find that you could do things differently, and probably better. That's where the system can help.

Great advice and this is a big part of our process in terms pre-recommendation of software.

People have to realize that a ERP should be a minimum of 10 year and more likely 20 year investment and cycle.

[calculoso]

Having recently experienced a situation where my business was 'forced' to modify itself to fit our new ERP system (and is still causing issues, as there was a huge gap with who was expected to spec and test what). Definitely ensure that you have experts on your business fully involved and not just someone who may know. How much you know about how you deal with shipping, customs, invoicing, serial numbers, etc, etc will be critical in preventing future problems from occurring.

Nothing like finding out a year later that you haven't been billing Customers for shipping costs that were included in the quote, Purchase Orders, etc...

[CaptainCrunch]

Can I ask what system you went with Calculoso?

For the most part in a proper ERP implementation you shouldn't have to force modify your business to fit unless your in the SAP or Oracle world and are chasing business designations.

[calculoso]

Oracle. Wasn't a good experience, and it wasn't so much Oracle as the subcontactors that 'helped' us set it up. Nothing like moving from one Oracle implementation to another (same version) and losing functionality because it 'isn't possible'.

[-TC-]

that sounds like Oracle.....

[TurnedTheCorner]

I entered this thread only to say not to use Oracle.

[CaptainCrunch]

Someday when I have time I'll put the story of the SAP 2,000,000 implementation meeting up.

Its a prime story on the dangers of an improper choice and implementation of an ERP

[-TC-]

I don't do ERP but my clients who use Oracle roundly despise it...

[Badgers Nose]

I know of one local oracle implementation that was $15,000,000 over budget. That was about 40%.

Oracle maybe got 2-3 million the rest went to the integrator.

IMO it's oracle's fault because they don't have a service division to implement what they sell. Only way to insure QA is by being fully vertically integrated including services and support.

Oracle has 100,000 employees, I bet 90,000 of them sales people of some kind.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Regarding the actual system I will let CC give you advice.

I will give you advice that before you decide on which software you buy you should do some work to map some of your key business processes, i.e financial, production processes, accounting processes. I have been part of many implementations where the business was made to fit the system, as opposed to the other way around, it was a nightmare. Now when you do map your processes you will probably find that you could do things differently, and probably better. That's where the system can help.

This.

I have been part of many different large and small projects, and for an ERP this is paramount. Get some very good Business Analysts, nominate a business SME and demand they set aside a chunk of their week to work through these processes with the BA. Know who owns and who is the custodian of all processes and data.

The biggest mistake I haves seen is exactly what others mention here, "shove it in and we will adapt to the system". That is recipe for disaster, as you will flip the switch and few people will know who is responsible for doing what. Often things get missed, and people get very angry and stop using the system or even quit.

One last thing. Change Management is extremely important. I'm taking about people who only do this and are experts at communicating, and rolling,out training and change. Don't surprise anyone with this type of system, make sure they know it is coming, why it is a benefit to them, listen to their concerns, and provide a support model.

If you do this, realize it is a lot of work to do it right, but you will know how much you are going to save by doing a proper business case upfront. So you will know if it is short term pain, long term pain.

Heck, you may even say forget it and walk away. That is ok too, just make sure you do your homework and don't cut too many corners to save time or money.

[CaptainCrunch]

That's a pretty common story especially with organizations that make a leap into the tier one ERP's like Oracle or SAP or even JDE.

A lot of the overage comes from the fact that most companies don't really have an understanding of what they're looking at except its spelled ERP and it becomes a dream factory.


From a venders perspective due diligence really means making an honest assesment if there solution is the best fit for the client. Having a key understanding of the current pain points, current business processes, and the future state requirements.

From a customer perspective its understanding the same as above and having a key list of future requirements that are vital and that are dream state.

We walk away from more deals then I can talk about because our solutions while workable would be made workable by more customization then another solution.

beware of the ERP vender who's answer to everything is absolutely our system can handle it. If that's the answer then you have to understand what's out of the box and what's customized (ie screens). If you do a good job of selecting an ERP then customization shouldn't be the major part of the project costs.

Its also important to set and lock a proper scope for the project. Too many times things go out of control because of scope creep. when you decide on the system and decide on your requirements make sure that you get a fairly bullet proof statement of work, and that the Implementation and project plan are broken down by phases and work done during the phases.

As well beware of the vendor that wants to charge you for the implementation up front, you lose a big time control tool if you do that. For the most part the tier two or mid level ERP vendors will charge on a monthly basis based around work done. Its easier if you pay up front for the implementation for the vendor to run out of time because they've underquoted to get the business and to come back for more time and money.

Make sure on your side of the fence that you have a strong personality as your project manager who ensures that the internal time lines for things like data conversions and testing is completed. A lot of times scope creep happens when an organization agrees to do something (ie reviewing data for errors) and then at the last minute doesn't do it, it not only throws off the project time line, but the vender is more then happy to step in and do it at an extra cost.

Define a hard go no go date for go live. Costs will accelerate if you fall behind near the end of the project or if you add to the scope. Also if you suddenly have a implementation where they flood you with consultants and programmers and business analysts your costs are going to be tough to control.

Just some thoughts.

As an add on to dutch's post, don't be afraid to walk away or threaten to walk away if things spiral.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Having worked in ERP evaluation for many years now, I can't emphasize the importance of defining/understanding your process before even looking at ERP's. Having this documented and locked down (hopefully purified) will make evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of each ERP significantly (not to mention the benefits in implementation)

There's a shop in town that's running a $70M Kevin Lowe-esque implementation (and that $70M is understated). Easily the worst I have ever seen. Best part - they picked the wrong damn ERP! They used the "shove it in method" as OldDutch states. Absolute comedy.

Oh and don't forget about reporting. Everyone forgets about reporting till they turn it on. Think about reporting when you define your chart of accounts.

[CubicleGeek]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Regarding the actual system I will let CC give you advice.

I will give you advice that before you decide on which software you buy you should do some work to map some of your key business processes, i.e financial, production processes, accounting processes. I have been part of many implementations where the business was made to fit the system, as opposed to the other way around, it was a nightmare. Now when you do map your processes you will probably find that you could do things differently, and probably better. That's where the system can help.

Yes, make sure you fully understand your as-is processes and have them well-documented before you bring in the vendor to roll out the system.

A word of caution however concerning concerning fitting a system to your as-is processes. As much as you want to find a tool that accommodates your as-is processes, you really need to take this opportunity to revisit which processes still make sense. More often than not, as-is processes are influenced by the constraints of as-is systems and tools. You may find that with a modern system, some of the things you are doing today you don't need to do at all or can significantly improve.