Mark "Fricken" Jankowski (aka The Big Jankowski)

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I take the view that you gamble from a position of strength not when you are risking your grocery money. For me Maata was the obvious choice. Me being a Flames fan I hope Jankowski turns out, but there were better picks out there.

Am I correct to assume then, that if Jankowski tops out as a good, top-six forward that your response would be something like:

"*phew*! That was lucky, but what a stupid pick!" ?

My take is a little different: When the pick was made and then explained by Flames management, it seemed more of a case in which the team had nothing to lose, but could potentially make a massive gain. With how shallow the prospect pool was heading into the 2012 draft, the Flames' fortunes were not going to be dramatically affected by the addition of any single player from that class, given that the draft class on the whole was also considerably below average in quality. The Flames were not getting a game-breaker, and possibly not even a regular top-six / top-four skater from the consensus picks. Jankowski represented a good opportunity to pick a player that could top out as an elite, top line centre. It is a long shot, but the ceiling and the circumstances made it an okay pick.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Am I correct to assume then, that if Jankowski tops out as a good, top-six forward that your response would be something like:

"*phew*! That was lucky, but what a stupid pick!" ?

My take is a little different: When the pick was made and then explained by Flames management, it seemed more of a case in which the team had nothing to lose, but could potentially make a massive gain. With how shallow the prospect pool was heading into the 2012 draft, the Flames' fortunes were not going to be dramatically affected by the addition of any single player from that class, given that the draft class on the whole was also considerably below average in quality. The Flames were not getting a game-breaker, and possibly not even a regular top-six / top-four skater from the consensus picks. Jankowski represented a good opportunity to pick a player that could top out as an elite, top line centre. It is a long shot, but the ceiling and the circumstances made it an okay pick.

That logic seems backwards to me. If I'm broke, I should gamble what money I have left because that not won't mean much in the long run....?

The only time you can gamble a top pick is of you're stacked. Even then, it seems silly

[djsFlames]

I would have felt safer with Terrevainen or Maatta, but I think Janks still has the tools. When he puts up points they're usually beauties. Would like to see him play on another team with a different system and perhaps some other/real talents.

He's a month apart from Monahan. If Monahan went scoreless the rest of the season would we call him a bust? Doubtful. So not like Janks should be treated vastly differently. Kid's young. But he should start to put the offense together soon.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Am I correct to assume then, that if Jankowski tops out as a good, top-six forward that your response would be something like:

"*phew*! That was lucky, but what a stupid pick!" ?

My take is a little different: When the pick was made and then explained by Flames management, it seemed more of a case in which the team had nothing to lose, but could potentially make a massive gain. With how shallow the prospect pool was heading into the 2012 draft, the Flames' fortunes were not going to be dramatically affected by the addition of any single player from that class, given that the draft class on the whole was also considerably below average in quality. The Flames were not getting a game-breaker, and possibly not even a regular top-six / top-four skater from the consensus picks. Jankowski represented a good opportunity to pick a player that could top out as an elite, top line centre. It is a long shot, but the ceiling and the circumstances made it an okay pick.

No matter how it turns out, yeah, I think it was a stupid pick for the Flames who need to gather solid assets, not some pie in the sky dream by a couple of guys who want to show they're smarter than the rest.

You've been drinking too much Feaster cool-aide and have you never heard of the expression, 'You don't gamble with scared money'. You don't have nothing to lose unless you don't have nothing.

As for it being a weak draft, I count 17 players that already have NHL games in, including Girgensons who Buffalo drafted with our 14th pick.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html

[Calgary4LIfe]

Todd Button talked about the selection after the draft. He stated that Jankowski is a tough prospect to scout because of where he was playing. Some scouts will have a tougher time to see if he is just a decent prospect in a horrible league, or if he is an 'a' class prospect in a horrible league.

I believe the Flames sent their entire scouting department at different intervals to continually keep eyes on him and get a good book on him. I believe at least one Flames' scout watched Jankowski play every single game starting before the half-way point of the season, IIRC. They felt that after doing so for a long period of time, they were confident that he was a very good prospect. They then went and drafted him.

This wasn't simply a 'hail mary' gamble. They felt he was the best available prospect. Does that mean he was the best player at the time? No. They felt he was a very good prospect who will develop into a very good player (project status) in time.

It isn't like the Flames were saying: "Ok, we can draft a guy that will definitely play for us in some reduced capacity as a bottom line forward or a bottom pairing defender, or we can gamble and hope we get a 1st line center even though it is a one-in-a-million chance. Let's gamble!!"

They scouted Jankowski diligently. For a long period of time. I believe it was EVERY SINGLE scout. Whether or not you feel it was the wrong pick is besides the point. The Flames were not 'gambling'. They took who they felt would develop into the best player (hence Feaster's stupid remarks after that draft).

One thing that I liked about Weisbrod was (though the Flames seemed to be doing so with late round picks already) that he wanted each and every pick to count. He wanted the Flames to scout each and every pick well, and not hope for a miracle. I doubt very much that he would gamble the pick.

You, me and the rest of the world might feel it is a 'gamble' pick that the Flames are really hoping it works out, but to the Flames they diligently scouted Jankowski, and felt that he would have one of the better careers (not the best as Feaster stupidly blurted out at the draft, especially when it was leaked that the Flames had Galchenyuk ranked 1st) from that draft.

If the Jankowski pick fails, it is because the Flames were wrong about the pick, and you have to question their scouting department a bit more after that. However, if Jankowski indeed does not pan out, it wasn't because the 'gamble' failed. There was no gambling about it.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

No matter how it turns out, yeah, I think it was a stupid pick for the Flames who need to gather solid assets, not some pie in the sky dream by a couple of guys who want to show they're smarter than the rest.

You've been drinking too much Feaster cool-aide and have you never heard of the expression, 'You don't gamble with scared money'. You don't have nothing to lose unless you don't have nothing.

As for it being a weak draft, I count 17 players that already have NHL games in, including Girgensons who Buffalo drafted with our 14th pick.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html

Who cares if a player has already played in the NHL from that draft. A guy like Girgensons played in the AHL 1 year and now NHL, stats wise he hasn't done anything to warrant being in the NHL nor was he an offensive force in the AHL. Its not about being first to the NHL, its about being successful and being an impact player once you are in the NHL. If it takes Jankowski 4-5 years post draft to make the NHL who cares...the Flames are rebuilding and need to develop their prospects versus icing a team of 19/20 year olds. The only prospects making an impact at an early age are Hertl, Matta and somewhat Ceci. All guys in their draft years had knocks on them. I remember reading on countless reports that Matta had red flags on his hockey sense. Ceci really broke out the year after being drafted. For Hertl there were a few reports saying his skating was his weakness.

I love how everyone is a "super scount" a couple years after a draft and says they should have taken x player when they truly had no idea who that player even was a few years ago.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Husky

Who cares if a player has already played in the NHL from that draft. A guy like Girgensons played in the AHL 1 year and now NHL, stats wise he hasn't done anything to warrant being in the NHL nor was he an offensive force in the AHL. Its not about being first to the NHL, its about being successful and being an impact player once you are in the NHL. If it takes Jankowski 4-5 years post draft to make the NHL who cares...the Flames are rebuilding and need to develop their prospects versus icing a team of 19/20 year olds. The only prospects making an impact at an early age are Hertl, Matta and somewhat Ceci. All guys in their draft years had knocks on them. I remember reading on countless reports that Matta had red flags on his hockey sense. Ceci really broke out the year after being drafted. For Hertl there were a few reports saying his skating was his weakness.

I love how everyone is a "super scount" a couple years after a draft and says they should have taken x player when they truly had no idea who that player even was a few years ago.

To reiterate this, it is interesting to look back at the poll done before the draft:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=117845
The number one choice was Sebastien Collberg - who would end up going in the 2nd round. He's an OK prospect but a lot of bust potential - certainly no better than Janko at this point.

To be fair, a lot of the folks arguing for Maata (e.g. Vulcan) said the Flames should pick him in this poll - so it isn't entirely 20/20 hindsight.

Moreover, as much as some people argue Janko was a huge reach, he was on the radar enough that CP included him in the poll, even when the poll was based on the Flames original draft position.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

To reiterate this, it is interesting to look back at the poll done before the draft:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=117845
The number one choice was Sebastien Collberg - who would end up going in the 2nd round. He's an OK prospect but a lot of bust potential - certainly no better than Janko at this point.

To be fair, a lot of the folks arguing for Maata (e.g. Vulcan) said the Flames should pick him in this poll - so it isn't entirely 20/20 hindsight.

Moreover, as much as some people argue Janko was a huge reach, he was on the radar enough that CP included him in the poll, even when the poll was based on the Flames original draft position.

So the CP poll gave Collberg the most votes and he's a gamble too. So what, I hope the Flames brain trust is better than Calgary Puck.

What I remember is that Button was ranking Jankowski 14th when no other source had him in the first round but with his brother our head scout and us picking 14th, it looked like Calgary might draft him, which put him on CPs radar.

and yeah for what it's worth, I voted for Maatta in that poll and had some idea of who he was by doing some reading and watching. I try not to talk out of my a$$ like this fellow.

I love how everyone is a "super scount" a couple years after a draft and says they should have taken x player when they truly had no idea who that player even was a few years ago.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So the CP poll gave Collberg the most votes and he's a gamble too. So what, I hope the Flames brain trust is better than Calgary Puck.

What I remember is that Button was ranking Jankowski 14th when no other source had him in the first round but with his brother our head scout and us picking 14th, it looked like Calgary might draft him, which put him on CPs radar.

and yeah for what it's worth, I voted for Maatta in that poll and had some idea of who he was by doing some reading and watching. I try not to talk out of my a$$ like this fellow.

I agree the Flames brain trust should be better and maybe they will end up being. I just think its interesting to look back to see what was on the radar at the time.
People are snippy around here lately.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Todd Button talked about the selection after the draft. He stated that Jankowski is a tough prospect to scout because of where he was playing. Some scouts will have a tougher time to see if he is just a decent prospect in a horrible league, or if he is an 'a' class prospect in a horrible league.

I believe the Flames sent their entire scouting department at different intervals to continually keep eyes on him and get a good book on him. I believe at least one Flames' scout watched Jankowski play every single game starting before the half-way point of the season, IIRC. They felt that after doing so for a long period of time, they were confident that he was a very good prospect. They then went and drafted him.

This wasn't simply a 'hail mary' gamble. They felt he was the best available prospect. Does that mean he was the best player at the time? No. They felt he was a very good prospect who will develop into a very good player (project status) in time.

It isn't like the Flames were saying: "Ok, we can draft a guy that will definitely play for us in some reduced capacity as a bottom line forward or a bottom pairing defender, or we can gamble and hope we get a 1st line center even though it is a one-in-a-million chance. Let's gamble!!"

They scouted Jankowski diligently. For a long period of time. I believe it was EVERY SINGLE scout. Whether or not you feel it was the wrong pick is besides the point. The Flames were not 'gambling'. They took who they felt would develop into the best player (hence Feaster's stupid remarks after that draft).

One thing that I liked about Weisbrod was (though the Flames seemed to be doing so with late round picks already) that he wanted each and every pick to count. He wanted the Flames to scout each and every pick well, and not hope for a miracle. I doubt very much that he would gamble the pick.

You, me and the rest of the world might feel it is a 'gamble' pick that the Flames are really hoping it works out, but to the Flames they diligently scouted Jankowski, and felt that he would have one of the better careers (not the best as Feaster stupidly blurted out at the draft, especially when it was leaked that the Flames had Galchenyuk ranked 1st) from that draft.

If the Jankowski pick fails, it is because the Flames were wrong about the pick, and you have to question their scouting department a bit more after that. However, if Jankowski indeed does not pan out, it wasn't because the 'gamble' failed. There was no gambling about it.

Thanks for this - I agree.
And I don't think Calgary was the only team interested in him in the first round. My recollection is that, even though most were projecting Jankowski as a second rounder, it was a similar situation to this year when Montreal was rumoured to be going to take Poirier (so he wouldn't be available for the next Flames' pick). I think the pundits were saying another team - I think it was New Jersey - was likely to draft Jankowski in the first round, so he wouldn't be available for Calgary's second round pick.

[c.t.ner]

I'm not sure if it's been brought up recently, but wasn't the story behind the Jankowski pick that the Flames were actually looking to trade that year's first rounder for immediate help (because they were still in win-now mode)?

I think I recall that being the discussion until one of the Ontario scouts forced Weisbord to go see him play. When Weisbord saw him, he told Feaster not to both trading the pick because that was the kid.

If that's the true story of things, then it was really Jankowski or a playing veteran - there would have been no Collberg, TT or Maata. Similar to what they did during the last draft, the Flames seem to have a list of players and stick to it. - even when other 'top picks' are available.

I personally like the all in approach. It'll be interesting to see if pans out in a few years.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I agree the Flames brain trust should be better and maybe they will end up being. I just think its interesting to look back to see what was on the radar at the time.
People are snippy around here lately.

Yeah, generally I like to hang out on this forum because there is less of the calling out of posters but that isn't what has been happening lately, so sometimes I defend my opinions because when I just let it slide, I don't feel good.

and yeah, looking back at that poll was interesting. I also looked back at some posts after we drafted Janko and there was a lot of posters not liking it. I wasn't that upset at first but his plans to go to the USHL, didn't exactly fill me with confidence if he didn't have the confidence to go straight to college. As it is, the track he is on, we won't see him in Calgary for 5 years after he was drafted. If he had of gone to the USHL it would be 6 years if he didn't do a run like that kid who signed in Edmonton.

[Caged Great]

I was one of the people that really liked Janko before he was drafted. My rationale was that he previously was a skilled player like Gaudreau, but because of his size before the growth spurt, it was unlikely for him to get drafted. However, you take someone with the higher end skill set and put him in a 6-3 or 6-4 frame, and you could have a very very good player.

When I was 16, I was 5-6, and 6 months later I was 6-3, and it took me till I was 20 to not trip over myself constantly because it does throw off your center of balance. With my own experience, I knew that he'd likely take 3 years at least just to get used to himself and make all the adjustments necessary (like his weight which is still a bit low). From what I saw back in July was someone that was trying to utilize his body more in making plays and pushing on people and trying to become a physical player (Not a banger type, but not someone that gets pushed over). That isn't something that he likely would've been used to prior.

He is still a work in progress, and the verdict won't really start to come in till the end of next year, and not entirely until he's 23-24. However, you also have to factor in Sieloff in the equation as well and he looks like he'll become a solid 4/5 guy like Smid give or take.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Thanks for this - I agree.
And I don't think Calgary was the only team interested in him in the first round. My recollection is that, even though most were projecting Jankowski as a second rounder, it was a similar situation to this year when Montreal was rumoured to be going to take Poirier (so he wouldn't be available for the next Flames' pick). I think the pundits were saying another team - I think it was New Jersey - was likely to draft Jankowski in the first round, so he wouldn't be available for Calgary's second round pick.

If I recall, all of Florida, Vancouver and NJ were targeting him, but I might be mistaken.

[SuperMatt18]

I also think we look at Jankowski and think he should be dominating college on a point basis just because he is a first rounder. Plus we have a prospect like Gaudreau who has lit the NCAA on fire and expect that from a player even though it is the exception and not rule.

For example look at Adam Tambellini. Struggled getting used to UND and the NCAA way of playing and put up a slow offensive start with only 4 points in his first 16 NCAA games.

Then he leaves school to join the Calgary Hitmen and puts up 4 points in his first WHL game last night.

Think it just shows that points might not be the best way to judge a player in the NCAA, especially for a 19 year old. While a 19 year old is expected to dominate in the CHL, that is not the case for the NCAA as they are still usually the youngest players on their teams.

[Caged Great]

Most teams in the NCAA usually do not rely on kids to be the central players.

It'd be like a CHL team having a 16 year old on the first line.

I am expecting Janko to improve on his totals from last year. In 34 games, he had 7 goals and 11 assists for 18 points. He currently has 7 + 5 in 20. So by the end of the year he should be around 22-24 points give or take. That's solid production for a 19 year old. Next year as he's getting utilized more, he should be closer to 30, and in his final year should be closer to 35-40 (possibly more).

If he continues progressing somewhere close to that, then he shouldn't have much difficulty transitioning into the NHL. If a player is over 6' and scores more than 30 points in their final year, they likely will become an NHL player, or at worst a good AHL scorer. Anyone closer to 40 points and is 6'+ is almost guaranteed to become an NHLer.

[MissTeeks]

I still like the pick mainly because it gave us the hilarious moment when Lt.Spears got busted by ClubFlames for saying he wanted Teravainen, when he selected Janko in the mock draft poll.

That was sweet.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=394

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Ah LT. What a maroon. That's the gift that keeps on giving.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

I'm not sure if it's been brought up recently, but wasn't the story behind the Jankowski pick that the Flames were actually looking to trade that year's first rounder for immediate help (because they were still in win-now mode)?

I think I recall that being the discussion until one of the Ontario scouts forced Weisbord to go see him play. When Weisbord saw him, he told Feaster not to both trading the pick because that was the kid.

If that's the true story of things, then it was really Jankowski or a playing veteran - there would have been no Collberg, TT or Maata. Similar to what they did during the last draft, the Flames seem to have a list of players and stick to it. - even when other 'top picks' are available.

I personally like the all in approach. It'll be interesting to see if pans out in a few years.

You are right, the Weisbrod had advised Feaster to trade the pick as he thought at 14 (or later), the Flames would not be in a position to draft anyone notable, as he thought the draft was fairly weak in depth. It was then that the whole 'snowstorm' thing happened when Weisbrod got stuck between prospect games, and Todd Button advised him to go view Jankowski who was playing at a fairly close location. Weisbrod fell in love.

I don't think it was because the Flames were in 'win-now' mode exactly. Feaster had essentially stopped trading picks for veterans at that point. Perhaps that pick would have went as part of a package for Turris at the time? Or perhaps another young-ish NHL player. Weisbrod originally felt that there was more value in trading the pick that year, rather than drafting someone.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

You are right, the Weisbrod had advised Feaster to trade the pick as he thought at 14 (or later), the Flames would not be in a position to draft anyone notable, as he thought the draft was fairly weak in depth. It was then that the whole 'snowstorm' thing happened when Weisbrod got stuck between prospect games, and Todd Button advised him to go view Jankowski who was playing at a fairly close location. Weisbrod fell in love.

I don't think it was because the Flames were in 'win-now' mode exactly. Feaster had essentially stopped trading picks for veterans at that point. Perhaps that pick would have went as part of a package for Turris at the time? Or perhaps another young-ish NHL player. Weisbrod originally felt that there was more value in trading the pick that year, rather than drafting someone.

I also believe it would have been apart of a Turris deal.