cr-v vs rav4 vs Santa fe

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by -TC-

The truth is, it's difficult to buy a bad car these days...you can buy a Mitsu or a Chrysler and then shoot yourself, but, the reality is autos these days are all pretty good.

There are some that are 'better' than others but, often, you are splitting hairs and it's subjective.

I know what I like, what I don't, and what I can't live without. That drives my buying decision; I like sedans, I don't like trucks, I'm very fussy about interior appointments, fit, finish, panel fit, paint and stuff like that....that's why I buy Japanese, it suits me personally. Even if it doesn't suit the dude next door with the Ford SUV....

lol "with the Ford SUV." Are you from a time warp and are looking at Ford SUVs from 10 years ago? I remember going to a Ford dealership in ~2000 and looking at a Ford Freestyle (later became a Taurus X, I think). Man, was that thing pitiful. Poorly pressed plastics, body gaps...just awful fit and finish everywhere. Now, I checked out a 4Runner and Explorer back to back and the Ford annihilated the Toyota in every way. Better looking, better quality, nicer fit and finish, nicer interior, better options, and for less money. I'm sure the 4Runner would be better off road, but that would maybe affect 0.25% of owners.

I just don't believe you're as experienced with cars as you pretend to be. You're the only guy saying the things you are about Ford, Hyundai, etc. Even your love for Japanese sounds outdated. Ten and 15 years ago you were right, but not now.

Also, I'm going to defend Chrysler for a minute since nobody else ever does. Not every car they make is bad. I've advised many people to buy their minivan, for example. At certain times of year they have the "all Canada package" or something like that. $20K for a new minivan with warranty, power everything, etc. It's an amazingly good value. Sure the van isn't as nice as a Sienna or Odyssey (I had a Sienna for years and loved it), but it's a smoking deal and a great value for many people. In fact, I don't think there is a better, more versatile vehicle by any manufacturer than that van for the price (if buying new).

Also, I have an AWD 300c. I was raised hating Chryslers, but as I got older and started thinking for myself I was able to look beyond that. Sure they have a lot of lame cars, but my 300 is killer. It has a ridiculous amount of options, is stupid fast, sounds awesome, looks cool and is very comfortable for tall people, which is very important to me. Japanese cars, unfortunately, don't fit me very well at all. I wanted an Acura TL for a long time, but they're just not built for people over 6'1". There aren't many Japanese cars I fit in.

My point is, writing off entire brands is ######ed. There are too many factors individual to each of us that you can't just give one-size-fits-all car advice anymore. Sure Chrysler is easy to hate and they've probable earned it with a lot of their cars, but that doesn't mean on or two of their vehicles won't work for somebody's particular needs better than any other vehicle out there. As soon as I hear people write off a maker, I instantly know they're unqualified to be giving car advice. There's one poster that has consistently done that on CP.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol "with the Ford SUV." Are you from a time warp and are looking at Ford SUVs from 10 years ago? I remember going to a Ford dealership in ~2000 and looking at a Ford Freestyle (later became a Taurus X, I think). Man, was that thing pitiful. Poorly pressed plastics, body gaps...just awful fit and finish everywhere. Now, I checked out a 4Runner and Explorer back to back and the Ford annihilated the Toyota in every way. Better looking, better quality, nicer fit and finish, nicer interior, better options, and for less money. I'm sure the 4Runner would be better off road, but that would maybe affect 0.25% of owners.

I just don't believe you're as experienced with cars as you pretend to be. You're the only guy saying the things you are about Ford, Hyundai, etc. Even your love for Japanese sounds outdated. Ten and 15 years ago you were right, but not now.

Also, I'm going to defend Chrysler for a minute since nobody else ever does. Not every car they make is bad. I've advised many people to buy their minivan, for example. At certain times of year they have the "all Canada package" or something like that. $20K for a new minivan with warranty, power everything, etc. It's an amazingly good value. Sure the van isn't as nice as a Sienna or Odyssey (I had a Sienna for years and loved it), but it's a smoking deal and a great value for many people. In fact, I don't think there is a better, more versatile vehicle by any manufacturer than that van for the price (if buying new).

Also, I have an AWD 300c. I was raised hating Chryslers, but as I got older and started thinking for myself I was able to look beyond that. Sure they have a lot of lame cars, but my 300 is killer. It has a ridiculous amount of options, is stupid fast, sounds awesome, looks cool and is very comfortable for tall people, which is very important to me. Japanese cars, unfortunately, don't fit me very well at all. I wanted an Acura TL for a long time, but they're just not built for people over 6'1". There aren't many Japanese cars I fit in.

My point is, writing off entire brands is ######ed. There are too many factors individual to each of us that you can't just give one-size-fits-all car advice anymore. Sure Chrysler is easy to hate and they've probable earned it with a lot of their cars, but that doesn't mean on or two of their vehicles won't work for somebody's particular needs better than any other vehicle out there. As soon as I hear people write off a maker, I instantly know they're unqualified to be giving car advice. There's one poster that has consistently done that on CP.

My hatred of Chrysler comes more from the horrible stealerships we have here in town. I had the misfortune of owning two of their product and dealing with the "service" departments at Big 4, Eastside and the worst Varsity was enough that I will never buy anything from Chrysler again.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Sliver

My point is, writing off entire brands is ######ed.

Except for Yugos. All of their cars were pretty terrible.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

Except for Yugos. All of their cars were pretty terrible.

haha, I even had a Lada caveat, but then deleted it to keep things concise. Should have left it in.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Agreed. Having a third row in a small SUV is the equivalent of having rear seats in a sports car. Sure, they're there, but nobody older than 5 is going to fit, they're just eating into cargo space.

Nothing wrong with needing a third row, just means you need a bigger vehicle.

A bigger sedan is or SUV without a 3rd row still only seats 5 people. If you have kids 3rd row seats are the next best thing to having a minivan.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

A bigger sedan is or SUV without a 3rd row still only seats 5 people. If you have kids 3rd row seats are the next best thing to having a minivan.

I think the point he and I are making is if you need a third row, there are better vehicles (larger SUVs or minivans) than small SUVs with a very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous third row.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Good point about the price. Funnily enough my cousin had a Rogue before the Outlander. Still a lot nicer and more refined to drive in my opinion.

And yeah, my opinion is anecdotal, but read any reviews about Mitsubishi, and it won't be much different. The company has turned into a bit of a sad joke these days. They used to make some pretty good cars (good old 90s Eclipse!), but have been wallowing for years now.

Ha ha ha. The Rogue is crap. I know a guy at work that bought one and was in it more than a few times on lunch trips and it was loud with the little 4 cylinder and CVT. He ditched it after two years. Everyone knows if you buy a Nissan you have to avoid the Versa, Rogue, and Sentra which are all amongst the worst vehicles you can buy period.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I think the point he and I are making is if you need a third row, there are better vehicles (larger SUVs or minivans) than small SUVs with a very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous third row.

Most full size SUV's 3rd rows aren't markedly larger. Minivan is the only way to go if you need the seating all the time.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Most full size SUV's 3rd rows aren't markedly larger. Minivan is the only way to go if you need the seating all the time.

Yeah, that's true. My Expedition had a reasonable third row, but not great. My wife's Pathfinder has a third row that is only good for small kids, and even then it's just barely okay. Minivans FTMFW if you need a dedicated seven seater.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ha ha ha. The Rogue is crap. I know a guy at work that bought one and was in it more than a few times on lunch trips and it was loud with the little 4 cylinder and CVT.

It is all those things, yet I still found it a more enjoyable experience than the Outlander.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

When is a company going to put a sliding door on a 3 row SUV?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

When is a company going to put a sliding door on a 3 row SUV?

When they call it a van............

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Sliver

YMinivans FTMFW if you need a dedicated seven seater.

I just bought a minivan and even that the third row is only good for small kids for long haul trips. Can't imagine using the third row of a Rav4 or CRV other than for emergency.

[Canehdianman]

Anybody own a 2011 Sorento or driven one? experiences?

Pricing out SUVs at the moment and these seem to be the best value.

[pylon]

All the major Japanese manufacturers have been riding off of past reputation for over a decade. The big shift in quality came, when North American production became the norm, and now your Camry is being made by some guy named Hank in Indiana in a Subaru factory (yes this is actually happening). They got comfortable, and everyone had to build much better cars to compete with the quality benchmark set by Japanese made cars, unfortunately, white people ruined the Japanese quality aspect for them. And you got a bunch of lazy union workers involved, and ruined the process like they did with the domestics of the 80's. Concessions in quality, were made to pay for ridiculous labour costs associated with building the damn things. That is why you see distinctly different Japanese and American models, or in our case European and North American models. The only way to cater to the bloated workforces, and cheapass car buyer in North America, is to offer some neutered, stripped down, cheapified version of the original. And it is kinda sad.

Your 2014 Camry today, is like a 1987 Taurus.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

When is a company going to put a sliding door on a 3 row SUV?

Every door should slide in every car. Even the front doors should slide forward. No more door dings, bigger openings, easier to get in and out of in ever-shrinking parking spots. It just makes sense.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Every door should slide in every car. Even the front doors should slide forward. No more door dings, bigger openings, easier to get in and out of in ever-shrinking parking spots. It just makes sense.

No, it doesn't. There are a ton of reasons why you do not want sliding doors all around on a car, the biggest one being extracting a driver from a wreck. Sliding doors are like bank vault doors once they are seriously damaged. Also sliding doors would increase weight, reduce aerodynamics, and dramatically affect ride height. I'll take the door dings, thanks.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Table 5

It is all those things, yet I still found it a more enjoyable experience than the Outlander.

Subjective yes?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by pylon

No, it doesn't. There are a ton of reasons why you do not want sliding doors all around on a car, the biggest one being extracting a driver from a wreck. Sliding doors are like bank vault doors once they are seriously damaged. Also sliding doors would increase weight, reduce aerodynamics, and dramatically affect ride height. I'll take the door dings, thanks.

Why do they affect ride height? The Mazda5 seems reasonably low and it's not like minivans are exactly jacked up and they seem to cope fine with sliding doors.

I don't see how they'd affect aerodynamics.

For wrecks, I think if they were that bad they would be banned. The fact that they're not means they're safe enough IMO.

Weight, you may have a good point, but good engineering could probably get around that.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by pylon

All the major Japanese manufacturers have been riding off of past reputation for over a decade. The big shift in quality came, when North American production became the norm, and now your Camry is being made by some guy named Hank in Indiana in a Subaru factory (yes this is actually happening). They got comfortable, and everyone had to build much better cars to compete with the quality benchmark set by Japanese made cars, unfortunately, white people ruined the Japanese quality aspect for them. And you got a bunch of lazy union workers involved, and ruined the process like they did with the domestics of the 80's. Concessions in quality, were made to pay for ridiculous labour costs associated with building the damn things. That is why you see distinctly different Japanese and American models, or in our case European and North American models. The only way to cater to the bloated workforces, and cheapass car buy in North America, is to offer some neutered, stripped down, cheapified version of the original. And it is kinda sad.

Your 2014 Camry today, is like a 1987 Taurus.

Pretty much. I just laugh at the people that still think Japanese automobiles are build higher quality or to a higher standard. As I explained in a previous post today's Toyota's are not the same Toyotas built in the 90's as they have by their own admission slashed costs on materials. Most of them are build in North America or Mexico by the same people that make GM's and Fords. Not saying Japanese cars are junk or anything but they aren't anything special compared to any other car. I am reminded every time I get into my Subaru that Japanes interiors can feel and sound like they were build by Fisher Price.