[PGT] Flames Fall 6-0 in Phx

[habernac]

Westgarth is useless. McGrattan plays a smart game, he knows his limits.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

...

I say, the team after Burke turfed Feaster is a bunch of guys that feel they were given up on and are now looking over their shoulders. Feaster's track record here aside, he was developing a certain atmosphere that acknowledged the rebuild and gave comfort, but Burke undermined everyone's confidence whether he expected to or not.

Start with a small roster you need to ask to overachieve. Tell a team (and their fans) they are too small and then all of the 5'6"-5'11", <190 pound guys who were empowered have been snipped.

4 shutouts in 6 games? Pretty darn close to rock bottom here. Amazing how much worse a team that is already bad on paper can be when they are demoralized.

Hard to prove, but I totally agree. The momentum was stopped cold with that comment from Burke. It is like his comment about Yandle, completely unhelpful.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Why not? You want to throw them 15-20 minutes immiedaitly? They'd be just fine with 8-12 minutes.

15-20, no. But what are they going to learn from playing 4 and a half?

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by btimbit

15-20, no. But what are they going to learn from playing 4 and a half?

They're not goons. They won't be playing 4 and a half minutes. 4th liners can play 10 minutes a game you know? And if they're playing well in those mminutes then it can be increased in game.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Berra has poor rebound controlling... Only a couple of goals did he have no chance on, but the other ones were seriously his fault. He's always out of position.

I feel way more comfortable with Ramo in net.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Who cares if we're not getting pushed around if we are wasting 2 spots on useless goons? Does not being pushed around matter in the standings?

Wanna know a team who's been pushed around for a long time? The Detroit Red Wings.

I feel like some people would be happy if we continually sucked but as long as they went to sleep knowing we weren't being bullied they'd be happy.

Westgarth is useless for 95% of the game. McGrattan closer to 99%.

Nobody has a problem with one of those guys taking a spot from Reinhart? that kid deserves to be in the NHL but because of useless goons there isn't a spot for him.

I'm not a big fan of dressing a goon, let alone two of them but if the rest of the team is lacking size/toughness and dressing a couple big knuckle draggers helps the roster to feel a bit bigger/tougher than they are then I can live with it.

It does have other positives too IMO. One being that with McGrattan and Westgarth getting limited minutes, it opens up more minutes for the rest of the dressed forwards, so I think the bigger issue would be who are those extra minutes being passed along to?

You bring up Reinhart, yes I'd love to see him up here, but given my above points, maybe not at the expense of dressing Westgarth/McGrattan but rather at the expense of dressing (or even having) a guy like David Jones.

[JobHopper]

Why wasn't Karri Ramo given the start after winning the previous game?

Have the Flames tuned out coach Hartley?

How are these dismal efforts acceptable?

Coming out this flat on back to back games is unacceptable, where is the pride in wearing the Flaming C?

Is Brian Burke watching these games even if he's busy with the US Olympic team?

A lot of questions around this team right now.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by JobHopper

Why wasn't Karri Ramo given the start after winning the previous game?

Back-to-back starts are generally not though of as a good idea.

Originally Posted by puckluck2

They're not goons. They won't be playing 4 and a half minutes. 4th liners can play 10 minutes a game you know? And if they're playing well in those mminutes then it can be increased in game.

Thanks for not being condescending

I just think you're blaming the wrong people. Westgarth isn't proven here yet, but looking at McGrattan you have a guy who bashes skulls, is a huge presence in the locker room, and from the way he gets avoided on the ice sometimes I'd say he actually scares some opposing players. I'd take that over guys like Galiardi or D. Jones.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by UKflames

This is totally a team going through the motions waiting for the trades to come. The atmosphere seems to be so bad since Burke the saviour took charge, I blame him for this more than anyone else right now.

I was wondering the same, so I quickly looked it up. The Flames were 11-15-4 when Feaster was fired (37% winning percentage). They are now 15-22-6, so a record of 4-7-2 (31% winning percentage) since the firing. They were 13th in the west then and are still 13th in the west. So, not a tremendous amount of change, but they are losing in a more spectacular fashion and the talk about an atmosphere change is certainly out there and they do seem less resilient. I haven't noticed any more truculence. Lots of said it, and I believe it as well. It sure seems as if they are simply waiting for Burke to make his mark. He's not dumb, so probably sees that. But, he also probably doesn't care right now either.

[moon]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Nobody has a problem with one of those guys taking a spot from Reinhart? that kid deserves to be in the NHL but because of useless goons there isn't a spot for him.

I am more upset that useless vets like Galiardi and D. Jones are taking time away from him. Those are guys who are getting minutes/playing roles that I would prefer to see Reinhart in.

Ideally I would have McGrattan/Westgarth rotate (or dump McGrattan altogether) and only have one of them in but if that is the type of team that Hartley and Burke want to have then there are other guys doing less that are holding Reinhart back from being in the line-up.

[darthma]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Back-to-back starts are generally not though of as a good idea.



Thanks for not being condescending

I just think you're blaming the wrong people. Westgarth isn't proven here yet, but looking at McGrattan you have a guy who bashes skulls, is a huge presence in the locker room, and from the way he gets avoided on the ice sometimes I'd say he actually scares some opposing players. I'd take that over guys like Galiardi or D. Jones.

but... truculence?...

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'm not a big fan of dressing a goon, let alone two of them but if the rest of the team is lacking size/toughness and dressing a couple big knuckle draggers helps the roster to feel a bit bigger/tougher than they are then I can live with it.

It does have other positives too IMO. One being that with McGrattan and Westgarth getting limited minutes, it opens up more minutes for the rest of the dressed forwards, so I think the bigger issue would be who are those extra minutes being passed along to?

You bring up Reinhart, yes I'd love to see him up here, but given my above points, maybe not at the expense of dressing Westgarth/McGrattan but rather at the expense of dressing (or even having) a guy like David Jones.

The way this team is playing doesn't spell tough to me. When will this confidence make a difference? Or are we going to credit Westgarth for every goal we score now? We were scoring just fine without him. We get a gift pp and score on it against Colorado and all of a sudden people want Westgarth appointed mayor.

Playing tough isn't dressing two goons. Because if anyone believes we aren't one of the softest teams in the NHL then they're a little delusional.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

The way this team is playing doesn't spell tough to me. When will this confidence make a difference? Or are we going to credit Westgarth for every goal we score now? We were scoring just fine without him. We get a gift pp and score on it against Colorado and all of a sudden people want Westgarth appointed mayor.

Playing tough isn't dressing two goons. Because if anyone believes we aren't one of the softest teams in the NHL then they're a little delusional.

Hyperbole on top of hyperbole, and then the word delusional.

lol, thanks for reminding me why I usually stay away from attempting any sort of discussion with posters of your ilk.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

The way this team is playing doesn't spell tough to me. When will this confidence make a difference? Or are we going to credit Westgarth for every goal we score now? We were scoring just fine without him. We get a gift pp and score on it against Colorado and all of a sudden people want Westgarth appointed mayor.

Well, it can certainly be said that Westgarth changed the momentum of that game in the Flames' favour simply by being an absolute pain the the Avs asses. Goonery worked in that case

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Hyperbole on top of hyperbole, and then the word delusional.

lol, thanks for reminding me why I usually stay away from attempting any sort of discussion with posters of your ilk.

The only hyperbole around here are the posters claiming Westgarth changed the game against Colorado. And good choice if you're just going to defend the Flames at every turn I rather you not attempt discussion.

[FBI]

I have as much patience as anyone with regards to the flames and i expect losses, however I would like to be entertained. If we are going to get shutout every game I would rather get shutout with baertschi granlund and knight giving some effort over the useless vets.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No Burke's valid excuse to fire Feaster was underwhelming returns on trades and unimpressive drafting as Burke said the day of the announcement. You honestly think that Burke felt Feaster had an influence on how the team held a lead?

It's a rebuild and some of you already want knee jerk trades? If you don't have the patience to ride this out maybe you need to cheer for a different team because it's going to be like this at times for the next few seasons. The team is paying for a decade of no prospects in the cupboard and win-now mentality with an old team. Blame Edwards, the owners and King for this predicament not Burke. There is no quick fix that's going to change the plight of this team overnight unless you want to see prospects traded for quick fix help so we can continue the cycle of failure.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

The only hyperbole around here are the posters claiming Westgarth changed the game against Colorado. And good choice if you're just going to defend the Flames at every turn I rather you not attempt discussion.

Haha.

Yeah, me posting that "I'm not a big fan of....." and "but, I can live with it if...." is me defending the Flames to my bitter end on CP.

[SportsJunky]

Everything is going according to plan. I'm on board.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah I think it has to do with the Feaster firing and the team approaching the deadline.

With Feaster around I think some of the vets thought they could potential stay in Calgary, there was even talk in the media that guys like Stajan/Stempniak could be kept around.

However once that shoe dropped I think all the vets realized that the clock was ticking and that they were likely not coming back with Burke at the helm. It is hard to lay it all on the line and give 110% for your coach when you know it is a matter of time before you are getting shipped out.

The guys that have struggled the most over the last month are the "trade deadline" guys with Stempniak, Stajan, and Cammy no longer feeling comfortable and knowing that they will be traded soon.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by JobHopper

Why wasn't Karri Ramo given the start after winning the previous game?

Have the Flames tuned out coach Hartley?

How are these dismal efforts acceptable?

Coming out this flat on back to back games is unacceptable, where is the pride in wearing the Flaming C?

Is Brian Burke watching these games even if he's busy with the US Olympic team?

A lot of questions around this team right now.

Are any of these questions serious? Are you the same guy who asked Yzerman which teams he fears at yesterdays dumb Press Conference?