cr-v vs rav4 vs Santa fe

[T@T]

Originally Posted by -TC-

Buy Japanese...

The Hyundai lovers will scream they are 'just as good' but the reality is Japan is years and years ahead and you are comparing two of the best built brands on the planet with one that's only now figuring it out.

There's a reason Hyundai has those really long warranties....

Not sure this post makes sense

Are you saying hyundai offers a better warranty because they want to fix them for free longer?

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by T@T

Not sure this post makes sense

Are you saying hyundai offers a better warranty because they want to fix them for free longer?

Yeah, I was going to point that out as well.

I get that Hyundai and Kia are offering longer warranties in order to help people get over the problems of the past (just as Honda et al did before), but wouldn't these companies be bankrupt if they made crap and fixed it for 7 years?

We have had a Kia Optima for over 2 years now. Absolutely love it, hasn't had a single problem and came tricked out at a great price.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Yeah, if you need to tow with it then that's a whole different matter. You may just want to get a crew cab full-size truck.

Btw, you're going to need that rear-facing seat for a whole lot longer than 6 months. It will be more like 1.5-2 years...Ive read many places recommend going 2 years as that's how long it takes for your kid's neck bones to harden enough to support their giant heads in a whiplash scenario). They are a pain in the dick as they do take away a lot of leg-room (that's probably the biggest reason to get something bigger imo).

Yeah, I'll have to look into it some more. I thought you usually moved to a front-facing after 20-30 lbs? Meh, I've got until May to figure it out.

My search started with a crew cab truck. Problem is that my Tundra is already large for my parkade downtown, I don't really want to try to shoehorn a supercrew f-150 in there.

I'm debating just renting something for the 4 times a year that I want to tow the boat... Or, as mentioned above, getting an SUV that can tow 5000 lbs and doing it with that. The boat is less than 3500 lbs including trailer and gear.

[cracher]

Originally Posted by pylon

Yes, Audi does, and by a substantial margin as well. We are talking comparing a Timex to a Rolex as far as difference in calibre. The best AWD system thing is a myth perpetuated by Subie owners. Don't get me wrong, Subaru makes excellent cars, but there are better options. Viscous coupling systems are inferior to Torsen gear driven systems. AKA: Quattro.

Subaru has a decent AWD system, but Quattro is superior.

Are you sure Quattro is torsen based? I used to autocross in a TT. I'm 100% sure it was haldex. Ironically, I had a haldex controller installed (HPA in vancouver can do amazing things to VAG cars) such that the haldex acted more like a subaru symmetrical system.

On topic, I'm 100% behind new Santa Fes. Massive bang for buck with the direct injection, torque vectoring AWD, tons of sweet options. My sister rescued me in hers when I got my subaru stuck during that december snowstorm.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by -TC-

Buy Japanese...

The Hyundai lovers will scream they are 'just as good' but the reality is Japan is years and years ahead and you are comparing two of the best built brands on the planet with one that's only now figuring it out.

There's a reason Hyundai has those really long warranties....

The OP's mom is looking for a used SUV, which is why the Hyundai offers the best value. Japanese cars hold their value better than Korean vehicles; therefore, she'll get more bang for buck with the Hyundai.

Also, Hyundai has those long warranties because they know most of their parts will not fail before the warranty is up. How you have spun that into a negative about them is beyond me.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by cracher

Are you sure Quattro is torsen based? I used to autocross in a TT. I'm 100% sure it was haldex. Ironically, I had a haldex controller installed (HPA in vancouver can do amazing things to VAG cars) such that the haldex acted more like a subaru symmetrical system.

On topic, I'm 100% behind new Santa Fes. Massive bang for buck with the direct injection, torque vectoring AWD, tons of sweet options. My sister rescued me in hers when I got my subaru stuck during that december snowstorm.

The TT and I believe A3 are the only Haldex models in the line-up because the engine is transverse. Are longitudinally mounted Audi engines are Torsen.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by pylon

Yes, Audi does, and by a substantial margin as well. We are talking comparing a Timex to a Rolex as far as difference in calibre. The best AWD system thing is a myth perpetuated by Subie owners. Don't get me wrong, Subaru makes excellent cars, but there are better options. Viscous coupling systems are inferior to Torsen gear driven systems. AKA: Quattro.

Subaru has a decent AWD system, but Quattro is superior.

Plus it is the number one car in the Lesbian community!:

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/othe...esbianCars.htm

http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?...views&id=76060

I was going to comment that Audi better make a better AWD system, you're paying almost double for the vehicle BUT... Subaru is selling Tribecas starting at 38 grand, the Q5 starts at 40,900. Jeepers.

Subaru's pricing scale aside, if Audi didn't make a superior AWD system to volume brands, that would be puzzling.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by T@T

Not sure this post makes sense

Are you saying hyundai offers a better warranty because they want to fix them for free longer?

It gives comfort to the buyer and the illusion of quality...

There is the impression that it means they will last longer, but the industry geeks I read say otherwise.

I'm not saying they are 'bad' what I'm saying is they aren't as good as something built by someone with decades more experience and a proven history of quality, reliability and build quality.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The OP's mom is looking for a used SUV, which is why the Hyundai offers the best value. Japanese cars hold their value better than Korean vehicles; therefore, she'll get more bang for buck with the Hyundai.

Also, Hyundai has those long warranties because they know most of their parts will not fail before the warranty is up. How you have spun that into a negative about them is beyond me.

it depends on how you define 'value'...if we have different opinions on what 'value' is (and I sense we do) then it's a pointless argument.

I wouldn't buy Korean, but I know people who do and are very happy with them.

I buy Japanese (right now, Lexus) because I am prepared to pay more for fit, finish, materials, better NVH and engineering. The fact that it comes with all the bells and whistles is a bonus.

[blazingZepplin]

I got stuck once with my 2013 corolla with winter tires but so does my neighbour's honda CRV. Since that winter storm never got stuck. After my lease is done i am or will buy a truck or an SUV. Winter tires sure does help and knowing how to get out of a deep snowbanks.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The OP's mom is looking for a used SUV, which is why the Hyundai offers the best value. Japanese cars hold their value better than Korean vehicles; therefore, she'll get more bang for buck with the Hyundai.

Also, Hyundai has those long warranties because they know most of their parts will not fail before the warranty is up. How you have spun that into a negative about them is beyond me.

The exact opposite is true. Hyundai does not have the reputation for reliability and quality versus for example Toyota. So to make up for that, they offer a longer warranty to entice buyers. They are not offering the warranty out of the goodness of their heart, they would reduce the warranty coverage in a heartbeat if they could.

Also buying a car for less can be false value because cost of ownership is higher.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I was going to comment that Audi better make a better AWD system, you're paying almost double for the vehicle BUT... Subaru is selling Tribecas starting at 38 grand, the Q5 starts at 40,900. Jeepers.

Subaru's pricing scale aside, if Audi didn't make a superior AWD system to volume brands, that would be puzzling.

Most low level Audi and all AWD VW's use a Haldex FWD based system to which the Subaru full time AWD system is better. The Audi vectoring systems are superior to Subaru who's AWD systems are built to a cost.

They most advanced AWD systems you can buy today are the Audi vectoring, Nissan ATTESA E-TS (GTR), Mitsubish S-AYC (Lancer Evolution), Honda SH-AWD. Now the benefits of these torque vectoring systems is more performance oriented so for the average driver the low-tech Subaru viscous centre differential works very well in poor weather.

[Vulcan]

I like the reports of the new Cherokee's 4 wheel drive where you can select the mode you want depending on conditions.

With Standard mode, the front/rear split varies depending on conditions; most of the time, the Cherokee should stay in front wheel drive for better gas mileage.
Sport limits traction control, increases stability-control slip thresholds, changes the torque bias for better cornering, and allows a target front/rear torque split of 40/60 for a rear-drive feel.
Snow starts in second gear, sets brake controls for slick surfaces, and goes into full time 4x4, preferring a 60/40 front/rear split. Mud/Sand is similar but uses off-road brake controls, and a preferred split of 100% rear wheel drive. Finally, Rock, on Trailhawk only (and requiring 4x4 Low), is similar to Mud/Sand but increases brake lock differential capacity and locks the differential.

4500 lb. towing capacity for those who need it also.

http://www.allpar.com/SUVs/jeep/2014-cherokee.html

As for styling, I'm a function over form guy.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by -TC-

It gives comfort to the buyer and the illusion of quality...

There is the impression that it means they will last longer, but the industry geeks I read say otherwise.

I'm not saying they are 'bad' what I'm saying is they aren't as good as something built by someone with decades more experience and a proven history of quality, reliability and build quality.

Then why don't the other manufacturers match the Korean warranties?

If If they are less to problems then it should be a non-issue

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by -TC-

it depends on how you define 'value'...if we have different opinions on what 'value' is (and I sense we do) then it's a pointless argument.

I wouldn't buy Korean, but I know people who do and are very happy with them.

I buy Japanese (right now, Lexus) because I am prepared to pay more for fit, finish, materials, better NVH and engineering. The fact that it comes with all the bells and whistles is a bonus.

How about we just stick to the dictionary definition of value to keep things simple.

Every time you pipe up in the car threads you go back to Lexus. Everybody has different needs, and Lexus isn't an everyman car; I'd actually classify it as a somewhat niche brand.

The OP's mom is looking for a used vehicle. That's your first indicator that price is a big factor. Hondas and Toyotas are relatively expensive used because they hold their value so well, which is why for her Hyundai becomes so compelling. Still good vehicles with the peace of mind of a long warranty, but for thousands less. You need to recognize your personal bias against Korean cars precludes you from giving good car advice for these types of questions.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Sliver

How about we just stick to the dictionary definition of value to keep things simple.

Every time you pipe up in the car threads you go back to Lexus. Everybody has different needs, and Lexus isn't an everyman car; I'd actually classify it as a somewhat niche brand.

The OP's mom is looking for a used vehicle. That's your first indicator that price is a big factor. Hondas and Toyotas are relatively expensive used because they hold their value so well, which is why for her Hyundai becomes so compelling. Still good vehicles with the peace of mind of a long warranty, but for thousands less. You need to recognize your personal bias against Korean cars precludes you from giving good car advice for these types of questions.

1. Define 'value' as it relates to an auto
2. I drove Hondas for 20 years until I bought a Lexus. Because I could and because of the quality.
3. Toyotas and Honda cost more up front, but they cost less to maintain. So, "relatively" the total cost of ownership should, all things being equal, be less over a period of time.
4. You need to recognize that my opinion is based on experience and knowledge of cars in general and does not preclude my ability to give good advice, in fact, the opposite.
5. I never said Korean cars are bad, just not as good as Japanese.
6. You are taking, and making, this way too personal.

[darklord700]

Another knock about buying used Honda/Toyota is the financing rate is much higher on used cars. I just bougth a new Odyssey with 0.99% financing rate. Had I bought used, it would have been about 4% or higher.

[rotten42]

I bought a used 2009 Limited (72,000kms) last year for $22k. It has worked flawless. I previously had a 2008 with my ex. It worked great too. Never a single problem with it. If getting a Rav, go for the V6 model. I don't mind paying for a reliable vehicle. My other car is a Lexus IS350 and other thewn replacing brake pads, I've had no issues with that either.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Another knock about buying used Honda/Toyota is the financing rate is much higher on used cars. I just bougth a new Odyssey with 0.99% financing rate. Had I bought used, it would have been about 4% or higher.

That's not a Honda/Toyota thing, that's a used car thing in general. When you see 0.99% financing or 0% or any preferred rate on a car, TD or RBC isn't giving you that rate. Toyota Financial Services or Ford Credit, whoever, is giving you a lower rate to motivate you to purchase.

Used vehicles are all financed through banks, and they aren't really in the business of giving out sub prime rates on used cars.

[JiriHrdina]

Do Hondas/Toyotas really cost less to maintain? The perception is they break down less I suppose? But don't their parts cost way more?

I think the smartest answer given in this thread was if you are buying used it makes more sense to buy a Hyundai, and if you are buying new you should buy Honda/Toyota (if you can afford it).

I know a strangely high number of people with the Hyundai SUV and all of them absolutely love it and have had very few problems.
For what its worth.