[GDT] Jan 4 - WJC Semifinals: SWE vs RUS (7AM MT) and CAN vs FIN (11AM MT) TSN

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Recently there have always been media wars before big games. And it will always be special considering so many finns live in Sweden. Often seems like there's not anything a finnish person loves more than to beat Sweden in hockey.
But yeah, looking at the games there is usually not much rough or dirty play. I guess you need russians and canadians for that

I doubt many people in either country take those tabloid wars seriously. The papers are trolling each other to get a few clicks. I actually think that it's more heated in Sweden these days, since I often read both during the big tournaments. Their journalists have even been trolling the Finnish players.

But that's a media bubble. Hard to say what the hockey fans think. I don't sense nearly as much hype in Finland as there was in the previous millenium.

I think the hatred has been more of a joke for a long time now. Maybe it's a joke that goes over the heads of some people but I don't see an emotional rivarly any longer.

[RyZ]

Canada has to take 4 elite scoring lines and keep the offence coming in waves. There is no reason to bring guys like Hudon, Gauthier and Anderson. In general, nobody under a point-per-game in the CHL should even be at camp. Canada has no reason for "energy" players.

And how do guys like Pelech and Bigras get on ahead of a guy like Nurse?

These teams have be built full of elite players. Not 2-3 lines and then fill in with energy players and role players.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Not near the same extent

i'm sure Finland would love to have a population base with 30 million more people to breed die hard hockey players.

Canada misses more players, but their pool to pick from is 7 times larger.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Sorry but if we're not sending a team to win the gold then we might just as well stay home. The only ones who might be interested in winning the bronze tomorrow are the team members. It sure as heck isn't the Canadian hockey fan.

Don't think it will be so much for the bronze tomorrow as for showing which team is the best. I expect both teams to come out very motivated.

[moon]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Who cares if they're better on paper, that's why they play the games on the ice there, moony!

When people are saying Hockey Canada made terrible choices, needs to be overhauled etc. then looking at the quality of team the put together certainly matters.

When looking at the team and seeing what happened knowing whether it was a poor performance by guys that choked or a lack of talent matters.

Today it doesn't change the outcome but looking at the bigger picture then it certainly does matter.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Canada has to take 4 elite scoring lines and keep the offence coming in waves. There is no reason to bring guys like Hudon, Gauthier and Anderson. In general, nobody under a point-per-game in the CHL should even be at camp. Canada has no reason for "energy" players.

And how do guys like Pelech and Bigras get on ahead of a guy like Nurse?

These teams have be built full of elite players. Not 2-3 lines and then fill in with energy players and role players.

Some years I get the need for the energy guys but not this year.

You had that type of player in Horvat, Lazar, Rychel. No need to bring guys like Leier or Anderson who are a tier below.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I doubt many people in either country take those tabloid wars seriously. The papers are trolling each other to get a few clicks. I actually think that it's more heated in Sweden these days, since I often read both during the big tournaments. Their journalists have even been trolling the Finnish players.

But that's a media bubble. Hard to say what the hockey fans think. I don't sense nearly as much hype in Finland as there was in the previous millenium.

I think the hatred has been more of a joke for a long time now. Maybe it's a joke that goes over the heads of some people but I don't see an emotional rivarly any longer.

Well yeah, I don't think it's really hatred either, but has it ever been? I've always seen it like a tongue in cheek love/hate relationship. But if the hype has died down a bit, it might be because Finland and Sweden meet so much these days in all of these euro tournaments no one cares about.

Edit: Btw you don't think the finnish papers are trolling swedes too? How about this from just last year:

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2013/05...of-the-sedins/

[moon]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Canada has to take 4 elite scoring lines and keep the offence coming in waves. There is no reason to bring guys like Hudon, Gauthier and Anderson. In general, nobody under a point-per-game in the CHL should even be at camp. Canada has no reason for "energy" players.

And how do guys like Pelech and Bigras get on ahead of a guy like Nurse?

These teams have be built full of elite players. Not 2-3 lines and then fill in with energy players and role players.

Canada didn't have 4 elite scoring lines this year.

Pelech and Bigras make it over Nurse because it is for the very large part a 19 year old tournament and Nurse hasn't been great so far this season in the OHL. Throw in his game not being a great fit for international ice or reffing and it really isn't that surprising he isn't there.

Bigras is 18 but from what i read about there games it seems like he was a better fit for international hockey than Nurse was. But I am sure there are Ontario posters that can say more about each guy.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Canada has to take 4 elite scoring lines and keep the offence coming in waves. There is no reason to bring guys like Hudon, Gauthier and Anderson. In general, nobody under a point-per-game in the CHL should even be at camp. Canada has no reason for "energy" players.

And how do guys like Pelech and Bigras get on ahead of a guy like Nurse?

These teams have be built full of elite players. Not 2-3 lines and then fill in with energy players and role players.

Obviously you can't just look at the scoring race and pick players... but here's the OHL scoring leaders: http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/s...s/ls_season/49

Brown, Dal Colle, Tierney, Bennett, Domi, Campagna, Pancel, Komischuk... all of these guys are eligible and would have ranked miles ahead in points ahead of everyone Canada took besides Laughton and McDavid.

The WHL scoring race is dominated by OAs so there isn't much there.

The QMJHL has Duclair, DuLuca, Porier, Marcotte all eligible in their top 5 scorers. Drouin and Mantha are up with them or ahead of them who were picked.

Not sure why we don't pick the best players. The big Canadian advantage is in depth and when we bring muckers it just helps other teams who's bottom lines and defense shouldn't be able to match up with ours.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Well yeah, I don't think it's really hatred either, but has it ever been? I've always seen it like a tongue in cheek love/hate relationship. But if the hype has died down a bit, it might be because Finland and Sweden meet so much these days in all of these euro tournaments no one cares about.

Well no, it was never real hatred, obviously. That's the word NA broadcasters use when they talk about the rivalry, though.

In my view, since Finland joined the euro, Sweden has become much more distant in Finland. Rarely relevant in the news media since everything happens in the Brussels. But this is somewhat subjective.

[Tinordi]

Hockey Canada tracks players starting in bantam, if you don't fall into the track then it's very difficult for late bloomers to elbow their way in.

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by moon

Canada finished top 4 for the 15th year in a row and people are questioning how Hockey Canada does things and saying there needs to be changes?

They also do this with their top guys missing year after year.

Its frustrating to see Canada lose but Canada easily wins this game with this team more often than not. Hard to fault Hockey Canada for 17, 18 and 19 year olds failing to show up for a game. You are always going to get wonky results with kids this age.

Canada go there for one reason and one reason only to win gold anything less is a failure. Having the better players and higher draft picks than all other teams makes it an even bigger failure!.

[CaptainCrunch]

Finland out Canada'd Canada. They played harder, stuck to their system better and competed. Canada came out like a team of fat and sassy pigs to use a Rider term, I think they expected to roll over the Fins, and it didn't happen. The fins pretty much beat them to every puck, they outfought Canada on the boards. This was a pretty embarrassing outing for Canada.

In terms of any kind of evaluation, Canada didn't really beat anyone of note in this tournament, they beat a rebuilding U.S. team, they beat Germany, Slovakia, and the Swiss. They lost to the Czechs.

There was a time when Canada's top players would come into this tournament and threw the fear of god into teams and outbattle and outwork teams. That didn't happen this year.

For the last few years we've seen a sharp decline in the junior program.

Its time to evaluate the selection protocol. This was a soft team that didn't have much fight.

The bronze medal game is pretty irrelevant in my mind.

Pretty embarrassing effort overall in this tournament.

[MoneyGuy]

Finland deserved the win.
Picking and cheering for Sweden tomorrow.

[The Swedish Flame]

Hyvää Suomi! Well played. We'll see if our boys can unlock your defence tomorrow and pot some goals.

Swedish Junior hockey has taken huge leaps recently. Five final appearances since 2008. It's a bit hard to understand/grasp, but fun nonetheless. Swedish Hockey is obviously doing something right these days.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Sorry but if we're not sending a team to win the gold then we might just as well stay home. The only ones who might be interested in winning the bronze tomorrow are the team members. It sure as heck isn't the Canadian hockey fan.

I disagree. I'm really excited as a hockey fan to see a Canada-Russia game. I hope we destroy those tools.

[Itse]

I still hate Brent Sutter for his coaching and I'm always happy to see him lose

[Mike F]

Canada was structurally terrible this entire tournament.

The Sweden - Russia game was full of puck support and 5 foot tape-to-tape passes to generate speed. Canada's game was guys spread out all over the ice throwing long passes that rarely found the mark.

Ferraro hit the nail on the head in this game when he described Canada's passes as "hopeful". That's exactly what they were. Flip passes into the centre of the ice or chip passes of the boards where that passers hoped their find a receiver, rather than passing with a purpose.

To me that looked a lot like the Flames under Sutter, and to that extent the failure falls on him.

Another problem, though, was a lack of battle. A dozen times a period I saw a Canadian player drifting towards a puck, or drifting into a corner. It was a pathetic display and there's plenty of blame: the players themselves, the coaches for not getting them to play harder, and the selection process for who was chosen and how.

I can't remember being as disappointed in a Canadian team as I am after that game, and this tournament.

[saillias]

Never seen the Canadian Junior team look so listless in this tournament. They just lacked high end talent, IMO. Usually there's three forwards as talented as Drouin, a guy like Horvat would be playing in the bottom 6. Not sure why they were so bad defensively, because that group of defenders should be good enough. I blame Sutter and bringing along Ryan McGill

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by The Swedish Flame

Hyvää Suomi! Well played. We'll see if our boys can unlock your defence tomorrow and pot some goals.

Swedish Junior hockey has taken huge leaps recently. Five final appearances since 2008. It's a bit hard to understand/grasp, but fun nonetheless. Swedish Hockey is obviously doing something right these days.

One gold medal in the last 30 yrs. Enjoy it while it lasts.