Let's play Keep or Dump

[Wolfman]

Keep- Monahan, Baertschi, Colborne, Backlund, Hudler, Cammalleri, Bouma, Giordano, Brodie, Smid, Ramo

Dump- Stempniak, Stajan, Glencross, D Jones, Galiardi, McGrattan, O'Brien, Butler, Smith, Berra

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Scott Gomez laughs in your face.

Scott Gomez is playing 13 minutes a game with Florida .... in his 21 games he has 5 pts and is only -8.

In his crappy last year with the Habs he was playing 13 Minutes a game and in 38 games got 11 points and was a -8.

You have to dig further to find someone as bad as Stempniak.




You want Gomez to replace Stempniak? Gomez is making 900K / year.

[Mister Yamoto]

Is David Jones' contract bad enough to get compliance buy out consideration?

The Flames have lots of bad players but thankfully not a whole lot of bad contracts. It would be nice to somehow get rid of D Jones and Widemans' contracts though.

[bubbsy]

flames have a bigger problem about being above the salary floor, so having a contract like jones seems fine to have on the books for now.

[Machiavelli]

Cammalleri has to go. His play of late coupled with his recent comments indicate he's ready for a change, and he could actually bring back some decent assets.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Is David Jones' contract bad enough to get compliance buy out consideration?

The Flames have lots of bad players but thankfully not a whole lot of bad contracts. It would be nice to somehow get rid of D Jones and Widemans' contracts though.

Pretty sure those 2 guys are the only thing keeping us over the cap
floor. With Cammalleri, Stajan and Stempniak expiring as well, if anything we might need a couple more players with dumb contracts.

[moon]

As much as David Jones does nothing on the ice his deal does keep us over the cap floor. I can't imagine that he gets anything on the trade market so might as well keep him to help boost the cap of the team. We aren't close to being at the cap so no need to compliance buy him out.

[SuperMatt18]

Jones also looked great before the injury.

He just hasn't skated as well since the injury and that is causing issues. Looks slow out there now.

[moon]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Jones also looked great before the injury.

He just hasn't skated as well since the injury and that is causing issues. Looks slow out there now.

He looked better but he didn't look great.

I think next year depending on what people off at the deadline the Flames can have a 3rd line of Stemp-Stajan-Jones and have it be the cap floor line. Also give them the hard minutes against the top line of other team so they get the goals scored against them, not the young guys and blame their lack of doing anything on focusing on defense. And let them be a good example in dressing room or practice or whatever it is they add. Probably too many old guys so maybe can Stajan and replace him with Backlund.

Either way it appears Jones and Stempniak will help us with their contracts and "intangibles" more than their on ice play.

Leaves guys like Hudler, Monahan, Baertschi, Glencross, Colborne to play top 6 with addition/s either from FA or the farm. 4th line Reinhart, Bouma, Knight/Street/Hanowski/whoever.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I'd put a vote in keep Stempniak. He's the type of veteran you want around a rebuild and younger players. He plays a committed and complete game. He's very versatile, can play in all situations, he has a great attitude, sticks up for his team mates and doesn't pout or complain.

I'll go to say he'll be more valuable to the culture of a rebuilding club that whatever we'd get back for him (2nd rounder).

Agree with you on his character but I just don't like his inconsistency. I think it sends a bad message to young players when the vets are so inconsistent. Same could be said for most of the veterans on this team. Probably explains why the Flames have sucked for so many years.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by saillias

Pretty sure those 2 guys are the only thing keeping us over the cap
floor. With Cammalleri, Stajan and Stempniak expiring as well, if anything we might need a couple more players with dumb contracts.

I get your guys point about the cap floor. But there has to be a better way to make the cap floor.

The ultimate goal should be to have no bad contracts. The last thing I want to see the Flames do is take on more bad contracts just to make the floor.

D Jones is a slight upgrade on Comeau. But triple the price for three more seasons. Get rid of him.

The only thing Wideman has going for him is his shot. 5 million a year for Andy Delmore 2.0. Look at the difference in the Flames GAA since he went down. Get rid of him.

If the Flames are in cap floor trouble this off season how about give Wideman and Jones' money to Iginla. Jarome Iginla for one year at 9 million with a handshake agreement that he will be traded to a contender at the deadline assuming that the Flames are out of the playoff picture.

9 mill for Jarome sounds crazy. But really, If you are going to watch a Flames game, who would you rather see at 9 mill per. Jones and Wideman. Or Jarome Iginla. I know what player I'd rather watch.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Calgary's RW is pretty thin so I wouldn't mind if they ended up keeping Stempniak. He's only 30 and seems to be a good veteran in the room. Having said that, if someone overpays for him, you obviously move him for youth / picks and you can replace him with someone like a Vrbata who also plays RW on a 2-year deal or something.

Glencross is annoying to watch and streaky as hell but what do you expect from a 2.5M player? That's why he comes cheap, and I'm not sure you will find much better value around the league for what he brings. Unless he's some sort of cancer, you probably keep him.

Calgary needs to complement the roster with some veteran experience so they shouldn't unload everyone for picks.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Cammalleri has to go. His play of late coupled with his recent comments indicate he's ready for a change, and he could actually bring back some decent assets.

Recent comments? What did he say? I didn't like his quotes during the lock out. (But I hated pretty much every players/owners comments on the lock out)

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Recent comments? What did he say? I didn't like his quotes during the lock out. (But I hated pretty much every players/owners comments on the lock out)

I posted them in another thread:

“You might not believe me, but the truth is at this point I’m really fine with everything and I’m at a good place,” added Cammalleri. “I understand the landscape and when it comes time to make decisions — and I’ve talked to Brian briefly. I’m good with whatever happens and I have no real pressing feelings there. I’m enjoying playing and I have a big responsibility of being a leader and I’m just engaged in that every day.”

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/12...r-the-picking/

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

flames have a bigger problem about being above the salary floor, so having a contract like jones seems fine to have on the books for now.

I don't like his play or his contract, but somehow he has found a loophole on staying on as a flame. I am almost sure he will be a Flame until his contract expires. Almost any other team would buy him out. Basically he lucked out and landed in one of the only spots that needed his cap # going forward.

Everything i heard from Av's fans and reading in papers, had Jones as #1 buy out candidate for last year. Luckily for them Feaster came calling. To think Feaster got schooled by 2 rookie executives/coach in Roy and Sakic is appalling.

[dammage79]

Keep:
Wideman
Hudler
Russell
Brodie
Monahan
Colborne
Gio
Smid
One of Berra/Ramo (to be determined at the end of the season)
Bouma

Dump:
Stajan
Stempniak
Cammalleri
SOB
Butler
D.Jones
Galiardi

AHL tweeners to keep:
Byron
Street

Bubble players that can stay or go depending on the return:

Backlund
Glencross (honestly, I don't think he's going anywhere because I don't think he wants to go anywhere)
McGratton

[Tinordi]

I think Cammalleri's playing quite well which is great for his trade value. He's not producing but this isn't a team that has the talent to have PPG type players especially with the injuries. Other teams recognize that too. In Cammalleri I see a player all over the ice and very engaged in the offensive zone. He just *gets it* on what he's supposed to do. Always around the puck, making plays, clearly he's the guy stirring the drink.

That should bode well for those fringe contending teams needing extra top 6 punch. NYR, Detroit, Toronto, Dallas are good fits.

[Roof-Daddy]

Keep the following IMO:

Centers

Backlund
Monahan
Colborne

Wingers

Bouma
Byron
D. Jones (Vet leader)
McGrattan (Vet leader)
Glencross (Vet leader)
Hudler (Vet leader)

D-men

Wideman (Vet leader)
Giordano (Vet leader)
Brodie
Russell (Vet leader)
Smid (Vet leader)
Breen

Goalies

Berra (Showing some promise)
Ramo (Showing some promise)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Trade the following IMO:

Cammalleri (UFA)
Stempniak (UFA)
Stajan (UFA)
Butler (UFA)

-----------------------------------------------------------

"Meh" - If you can get something for them great, or if they stay then whatever:

Galiardi
O'Brien
B. Jones


If the Flames get an unreal offer on, or can upgrade thru UFA, any player labeled "Vet leader" then by all means do it for the good of the rebuild.

[Fire]

Keep:
Backlund - looks like he is turning into a solid 3rd line center.
Hudler - Best play maker on the team. Perfect winger for Monahan
Monahan - duh
Baertschi - He will eventually pick it up
Glencross - can't trade all the veterans.
Byron - If anything he's a good guy for the Heat.
Bouma - Perfect 4th liner.
Wideman - The Flames still need a guy with a shot on the point.
Giordano - Can't get rid of the leader.
Smid - The Flames need his grit on the blue line.
Brodie - Promising young player.
Russell - Maybe best puck moving defenseman on the team.
Breen - Too early to give up on him. Send him down if needed.

Dump:
Cammalleri - should be able to get a 1st rounder
Stajan - the sooner the better
Stempniak - a 2nd rounder in return. Should be able to sign a Stempniak replacement in the off-season.
D. Jones - Dump him if possible or keep to stay above floor.
Butler - No explanation needed.
Smith - The Flames have too many D-man.

Undecided:
Colborne - needs to improve by the end of the season.
Galiardi - Liked him at the start of the season, but his play has dropped off.
McGrattan - I like the guy but wouldn't be heart broken if he left.
B. Jones - Seems like a decent player for the bottom two lines, but not sure if he has what it takes to be a full time NHLer.
O'Brien - Might be time to make room for a prospect.
Ramo/Berra - Need to see the rest of the season to determine who wins this battle. The loser is gone the other guy stays.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

"Dump" is reserved for awful players or upcoming free agents, so let's look at the free agents coming up this off season.

Forwards:
Mike Cammalleri: Dump. Obviously for the best return to our current rebuild.
Matt Stajan: Dump. We have better skilled centers coming through the pipeline.
Lee Stempniak: Dump. Just far too inconsistent despite putting the effort in every night.
T.J. Galiardi: Dump. I don't know what he brings to the team. The guy is really not talented.
Joe Colborne: Keep. Re-sign for a 2-3 year deal and see what he can do in that time. We'll know more about which centers to keep or trade by then.
Lance Bouma: Keep. Clearly will be a 4th liner/3rd liner for his whole career, but he's physical, skates well, and plays solid defense. Still very young too. Re-sign on a 3 year deal.

Defensemen:
Chris Butler: Dump. He is never going to be dependable enough to be top 4 or physical enough to be a bottom pairing defender.
Kris Russell: Keep. Re-sign on a 2-3 year deal. We need some capable defenders until our prospects or free agents arrive. He's been a revelation and can at least provide some stability and extra offense from the back end.
Derek Smith: Dump. He's been ok, but hasn't quite taken the next step in his development and only his NHL experience trumps anyone's talent on the farm.
Chris Breen: Dump. The experiment is over and Kanzig will take his spot on the farm next year. Worse than Adam Pardy…can you imagine?

Goalies:
Reto Berra: Keep. This was a tough choice for me, as I want there to be room for Gillies on the farm next year. Watching Ortio's progression leads me to believe that he is more than capable to play backup in the NHL, and Ramo is signed for next year already. Still, to me, Berra has more long term upside and is at least good in shootouts, where Ramo is not. If it's up to me I trade Ramo and give Ortio the chance to battle Berra for the starting job. Gillies is the starter on the farm next year and is backed up by Roy.

Now let's look at the non free agents left on the team

Forwards:
Jiri Hudler: Keep. He's been almost point per game this year and is one of our few offensive catalysts. Makes everyone around him better. He's small, but just needs a couple bigger line mates to be successful.
David Jones: Trade (if you can find anyone to take him). Listen, he tries hard but he's really not very good. I would keep him in a 4th line role but we have guys on the farm that can do that too.
Curtis Glencross: Keep. We have so few natural goal scorers that we simply cannot do without Glencross. His contract is good value despite the periods of lackluster play or bonehead moves.
Mikael Backlund: Trade. Like Stajan, we have higher talented centers coming through the pipe that need an opportunity. Backlund's had his chances to show he's a top 2 center, and he's not suited to a bottom 2 role IMO, so you trade him for something now.
Sean Monahan: Keep. Duh.
Sven Baertschi: Keep. DuhX2.
Brian McGrattan: Keep. He's a great 4th line enforcer who can skate a little, throw big hits, and pot the odd goal. He's a high character guy that everyone loves.

Defensemen:
Mark Giordano: Keep. He's our captain for a reason.
Dennis Wideman: Keep for now (talk to me in a year or two). We are still woefully thin on decent defensemen and he does bring something to the PP.
T. J. Brodie: Keep. Despite a bit of a rough first half of the year, Brodie still has good potential and keeps improving.
Ladislav Smid: Keep. He fills a valuable depth role.

Goalies:
Karri Ramo: Trade. As per the scenario I outlined above.

Then there are the farm players/prospects. I would also like to deal with them moving forward. First of all, here are the no-brainers to keep as they are valuable prospects or are still early in their development: Wotherspoon, Sieloff, Klimchuk, Poirier, Jankowski, Gaudreau, Gillies, Arnold, Agostino, Gordon, Culkin, Kulak, Kanzig, Gilmour, E. Roy, Rafikov

Forwards:
Markus Granlund: Promote. He looks like he's about ready for at least the chance to show what he can do in the NHL.
Corban Knight: Promote. Same as Granlund, a year in the AHL has proven that he deserves the chance in the NHL.
Paul Byron: Keep. Re-sign on a 2 year, 2-way deal. He plays a lot bigger than his size and has tons of speed. I don't know if he will be here long term with both Baertschi and Gaudreau likely to fill the smaller/skilled forward roles.
Ben Hanowski: Keep (Possibly promote). Re-sign on a longer term contract at low cap hit. He's got good size and soft hands. He's been one of the best players on the Heat this year. I wouldn't be shocked to see him in a 3rd line role next year.
Max Reinhart: Promote. He seems to be ready for the NHL as well, and could at least continue his development on the big club. Good energy guy that is tenacious around the net and plays a 200ft. game.
Greg Nemisz: Dump. He's pretty much a bust. Never going to be an NHLer. You might re-sign him to an AHL contract, but why bother.
Michael Ferland: Keep. He's back on track with his development, but still has a ways to go to be an NHLer. Still, with his size and skill combination you give him plenty of chances.
Ben Street: Keep. Re-sign to a 3 year 2-way contract. He's the perfect AHL call up center that can provide the organization depth while they are rebuilding.
Lane MacDermid: Keep. Re-sign to a 2 year 2-way deal. He's truculent.
Turner Elson: Keep. He's a solid depth energy forward that will probably be a good bottom 6 player some day.
David Eddy: Dump. The guy is pretty useless.

Defensemen:
Tyler Wotherspoon: Promote. I haven't seen much of Tyler, but the stats speak for themselves. He's not an offensive player, but has the best +/- among defensemen without putting up a lot of points as a ROOKIE. He will likely be ready to at least take on bottom pairing minutes next year.
Chad Billins: Keep. Re-sign to a 3 year 2-way deal. Similar to Street, he's the perfect call up for a team needing an offensive defenseman who can play some lesser minutes.
Mark Cundari: Dump. Despite a nice showing at the end of last year he's been a big disappointment.
John Ramage: Keep (possibly promote). He's been similar to Wotherspoon with solid defensive play. He might be ready for the #7 spot next year.
James Martin: Dump. He's not going to be an NHLer.

Goalies:
Joni Ortio: Keep (Possibly promote). Re-sign to a multi-year 2-way deal. If he can't hack the NHL he can always go back down to the farm and back up Gillies. He's doing exceptionally well in the AHL and looks to be much improved since coming back.
Olivier Roy: Keep. Re-sign to an AHL contract. He's a decent depth goaltending prospect who could still pan out long term.

So here's the team I could possibly see next year. I think we will have to wait and see what kind of return we get from trades this year as there could be higher end prospects coming back in those deals, but this is based solely on what we currently have and who could legitimately make the NHL roster next year. I feel we need one good top 6 free agent signing on the RW this off-season to help fill out the roster, preferably with size. It could also be filled through trading one of our current guys.

Curtis Glencross-Sean Monahan-Jiri Hudler
Sven Baertschi-Markus Granlund-UFA
Max Reinhart-Corban Knight-Ben Hanowski
Lance Bouma-Joe Colborne-Brian McGrattan
Extras: Paul Byron, Blair Jones

Mark Giordano-Ladislav Smid
Dennis Wideman-T.J. Brodie
Tyler Wotherspoon-Kris Russell
Extra: John Ramage

Reto Berra/Joni Ortio