Mayor Dave steals our money so he can harrass bums, hobos, and other transients!

[Scorponok]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

No its not.

If you hold down a steady job and can afford all these things you are lucky to be in that position instead of one of the many that suffer on the streets for reasons that you clearly don't understand.

You are lucky. Not better.

Disagree. Vehemently. Holding down a job is not "lucky" it's getting your @$$ to work on time, doing what you are paid to do, and contributing to society. Lotto is luck. Winning $10000 in a poker game is luck. Going to work and doing the bare minimum - something, which I might add, is now acceptable in this city because of the desperate need of workers - is not luck.

There is definitly a distinction that some people are better than others. We compare this all the time here. Would you trade Iginla for Rob Niedermayer or Dion Phaneuf for Tie Domi? Clearly, no one would, because one player is "better" than the other. And when bums and hobos contribute nothing to society, but instead decide they want to suck on society's teat than be gainfully employed, then clearly, the person who does contribute to society is "better" than the other person. It's sad, but it's the truth.

[V]

Well, of course, generally, nobody wants to live on the streets. But some people are more willing to follow the lifestyle that leads to the streets than others.

I have an addictive personality. Once I get hooked on something (cigs, messageboards, porn ) I just can't unhook myself. I chose not to ever get anywhere near pot or anything like that strictly because I know that I would get addicted and it would start the lifestyle that could land me on the streets. Am I lucky because I am able to choose the lifestyle I want?

I suppose it's a good philosophical argument. Are those with addictive personalities doomed before they even make it out of the womb? Are they unlucky because they fed those addictions while others were able to refrain from them? I don't buy it. It's basically saying that we can't accept any responsibility for anything bad that happens in our life, because we were unlucky to have a certain situation present itself to us, and we weren't able to tell the right way from the wrong way. No choice, we were just doomed before we knew what was happening. I just can't buy that.

[V]

Originally Posted by Scorponok

There is definitly a distinction that some people are better than others. We compare this all the time here. Would you trade Iginla for Rob Niedermayer or Dion Phaneuf for Tie Domi? Clearly, no one would, because one player is "better" than the other.

Sure, some people are more skilled than others. Does that mean that Iginla is more valuable to human existence and everything we hold sacred than, say, Chris Simon? Absolutely ridiculous argument.

And when bums and hobos contribute nothing to society, but instead decide they want to suck on society's teat than be gainfully employed, then clearly, the person who does contribute to society is "better" than the other person. It's sad, but it's the truth.

I know you keep trying to pass off your opinion as 'the truth', but really, your opinion is only that, an opinion. Should you be allowed to go downtown with your sniper rifle and pick off all the homeless people? And then maybe receive a nice award from the mayor? That would be nice, eh?

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Scorponok

hearing stories about how people use the money to buy drugs makes me wish we could round these people all up, grind them down into liquid and use their bodily fluids and grease to power our cars.

Madeline King, is that you?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Do some people get dealt better hands in life than others. Yes, thats life. However, most of this boils down to freedom of choice and living with the Consequence of ones actions. Lets not fall into this Liberal mind set of throwing the blame on others (ie. society, family, tv, video games). These people can make a choice anytime to remove themselves from the situation that they are currently in and work to make better lives for themsleves. I for one should not have to pay in anyway shape or form for the decisions and actions that someone else CHOSE to make specifically financially.

[Hakan]

I agree with most posters here. Damn those lazy, inconsiderate, smelly, ######ed, consumptive, weak minded, bums who have to remind us of our 'hard earned' wealth and privilege without my approval or consent. I am going to go spit in the face of those people who are stupid enough to sleep outside with no shelter, no food, no clothes, no friends, no family, and (for the most part) no mental health. I mean if they 'choose' to be that way they they also choose to be ridiculed by people like me who's problems are mere gnats in the hair of one of them. Haw haw!

Now if you excuse me, I'm going to go keep the 25 cents that I saved from NOT giving it to that person so that I can pay the meter parking for my $30,000 car.

vroom!

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

Well, of course, generally, nobody wants to live on the streets. But some people are more willing to follow the lifestyle that leads to the streets than others.

I have an addictive personality. Once I get hooked on something (cigs, messageboards, porn ) I just can't unhook myself. I chose not to ever get anywhere near pot or anything like that strictly because I know that I would get addicted and it would start the lifestyle that could land me on the streets. Am I lucky because I am able to choose the lifestyle I want?

I suppose it's a good philosophical argument. Are those with addictive personalities doomed before they even make it out of the womb? Are they unlucky because they fed those addictions while others were able to refrain from them? I don't buy it. It's basically saying that we can't accept any responsibility for anything bad that happens in our life, because we were unlucky to have a certain situation present itself to us, and we weren't able to tell the right way from the wrong way. No choice, we were just doomed before we knew what was happening. I just can't buy that.

Mecidally, yes, sometimes addictive personalities are born out of the womb, I'm not completely sure on the numbers, but a baby born to a mother who has an addiction to certian drugs are a number of times more likely to be addicted later in life than someone born under "normal circumstances".

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Scorponok

Disagree. Vehemently. Holding down a job is not "lucky" it's getting your @$$ to work on time, doing what you are paid to do, and contributing to society. Lotto is luck. Winning $10000 in a poker game is luck. Going to work and doing the bare minimum - something, which I might add, is now acceptable in this city because of the desperate need of workers - is not luck.

There is definitly a distinction that some people are better than others. We compare this all the time here. Would you trade Iginla for Rob Niedermayer or Dion Phaneuf for Tie Domi? Clearly, no one would, because one player is "better" than the other. And when bums and hobos contribute nothing to society, but instead decide they want to suck on society's teat than be gainfully employed, then clearly, the person who does contribute to society is "better" than the other person. It's sad, but it's the truth.

OK so what about the guy that can't make enough money to come up with a deposit for an apartment and lives on the street despite holding down a job? What of him?

What about the guy that suffers from severe schizophrenia and doesn't have any clue what's going on, let alone trying to get a job? What of him?

What about 14 year old kid that left an abusive home only to get caught up in the sex industry and can't get out of it because its the only way to feed his/her crack habit?

Unreal that people think that this issue is so black and white. Spend one night on the street and come back and tell me how many there want to be there. Its not nearly as cut and dry as you think it is.

And yes - I'll say it again. You are lucky. Most of us are.

[Scorponok]

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

Sure, some people are more skilled than others. Does that mean that Iginla is more valuable to human existence and everything we hold sacred than, say, Chris Simon? Absolutely ridiculous argument.

No. But a person who is working and paying taxes clearly IS more valueable to society than a person who does jack sh!+ and leeches off society.

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

Should you be allowed to go downtown with your sniper rifle and pick off all the homeless people?

One can only dream.

[Hakan]

One can only dream.

Yeah I dream of ridding the earth of inconsiderate selfish asses like you all the time.

[V]

That's not what I'm talking about, though. If a baby is born addicted to crack, no doubt his life isn't going to be filled with only roses and sunshine.

I'm talking about those of us who are born under 'normal circumstances' and have less will power than others. It's their duty to choose their lot in life, and I don't like the idea of calling them unlucky just because they went down the wrong path.

Don't take this to mean that I think one person is better than another. Individually, we're all pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I just don't like the lucky argument.

[V]

Originally Posted by Scorponok

No. But a person who is working and paying taxes clearly IS more valueable to society than a person who does jack sh!+ and leeches off society.



One can only dream.

Ok, I see where you're coming from. Let me be the first to say that you are an insignificant little worm that adds virtually nothing to the value of our society. Would society miss you if you were gone? I guarantee you, it would not.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Scorponok

No. But a person who is working and paying taxes clearly IS more valueable to society than a person who does jack sh!+ and leeches off society.

So, is someone who receives AISH benefits less valuable to society?

[Scorponok]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

OK so what about the guy that can't make enough money to come up with a deposit for an apartment and lives on the street despite holding down a job? What of him?

There is The Mustard Seed, and The Homeless Hilton, that triangular million dollar building beside the Bow River which is the sinkhole for mostly worthless bums and at the same time shows us how our tax money is being thrown away while attracting new bums from all across Canada. There is the food bank, CUPS, for food, as well as all other sorts of organizations out there set up specifically for people down on their luck. Not having to pay food or rent, a person working one or two months can EASILY save up enough for a damage deposit and rent.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What about the guy that suffers from severe schizophrenia and doesn't have any clue what's going on, let alone trying to get a job? What of him?

Yes, I'm sure 99% of homeless people suffer from schizophrenia and have no clue what's going on.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What about 14 year old kid that left an abusive home only to get caught up in the sex industry and can't get out of it because its the only way to feed his/her crack habit?

I'm not arguing that some people genuinly fall thru the cracks and need help, I'm saying that most of these people have the means to help themselves, but choose not to because of lazyness.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And yes - I'll say it again. You are lucky. Most of us are.

That is only your opinion, of course.

[jolinar of malkshor]

There are MANY I repeat MANY agencies out there able to help these people if they want it. No form of intervention will help unless they are willing participants. Just because they are addicted to CRACK (which they chose to snuff) does not give them ANY excuse for thier behavior or situation that they may find themselves in. As for the mentally disturbed. The people you find on the streets tend to be the ones that have been medicated and helped over and over but they choose not to continue with there medication. Short of holding these people in a facility and force feeding them medication there is not much we can do for them. And if we did do such a think there would be a huge public outcry, so where screwed either way.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

That's not what I'm talking about, though. If a baby is born addicted to crack, no doubt his life isn't going to be filled with only roses and sunshine.

I'm talking about those of us who are born under 'normal circumstances' and have less will power than others. It's their duty to choose their lot in life, and I don't like the idea of calling them unlucky just because they went down the wrong path.

Don't take this to mean that I think one person is better than another. Individually, we're all pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I just don't like the lucky argument.

The answer is still yes, although to varying degrees.

Not to mention, you have to actually try the substances in order to become addicted. There are normal people in life who are probably pre-disposed to such conditions, but have never used cocaine so who knows what would have happened.

Just like people can be pre-disposed to depression and other mental diseases.

[Hakan]

Scorponok, have you ever worked with homeless people? Do you know any of them personally? Or are all of your conclusions drawn from the perspective of your lofty pedestal?

The fact of the matter is, these are the poorest most underprivileged people in our society. They have no personal agency, no political power, no financial power, nothing, yet somehow they are the enemy? Maybe they are a product of society's problems not the cause of them.

[JiriHrdina]

There is The Mustard Seed, and The Homeless Hilton, that triangular million dollar building beside the Bow River which is the sinkhole for mostly worthless bums and at the same time shows us how our tax money is being thrown away while attracting new bums from all across Canada. There is the food bank, CUPS, for food, as well as all other sorts of organizations out there set up specifically for people down on their luck. Not having to pay food or rent, a person working one or two months can EASILY save up enough for a damage deposit and rent.

Simply not true. It is one of the biggest challenges for people on the streets in fact. And I also suggest you go spend anight at the "Homeless Hilton" so you can see how pleasent it really is.

Yes, I'm sure 99% of homeless people suffer from schizophrenia and have no clue what's going on.


Did I say that? What is a fact is that a good percentage of street people suffer from some sort of mental ilneess.


I'm not arguing that some people genuinly fall thru the cracks and need help, I'm saying that most of these people have the means to help themselves, but choose not to because of lazyness.

And I'm saying that you have demonstrated your startling ignorance of the issues and arrogance as a human being. I wish that someone like you could be forced to spend one night in the shoes of a street person and you might then have some sympathy towards what they go through.

[Scorponok]

Originally Posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken

Ok, I see where you're coming from. Let me be the first to say that you are an insignificant little worm that adds virtually nothing to the value of our society. Would society miss you if you were gone? I guarantee you, it would not.

Originally Posted by Hakan

Yeah I dream of ridding the earth of inconsiderate selfish asses like you all the time.

Yes, why don't we resort to personal insults and petty name-calling when we can no longer win the argument? It sure works for the two of you clowns.

Keep letting these people suck off the milk of a society filled with apologists and you'll be overrun with them. It's happening to Calgary already.

[Hakan]

But it's okay to say that you wish you could murder homeless people?