[Trade] Oilers trade Smid and Olivier Roy to Flames for Horak and Brossoit

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Actually with Shaw the Hawks figured they had a good bottom six guy...it's the offence that is a surprise.
Horak is going the other way needing to reshape himself from a junior scorer to two way pro. Not easy and many fail at it

Hence why they passed by him in 2 drafts?

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Komisarek has a cap hit of 700k.

Was alluding to his pre bought out contract.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

this thread has gone off the rails a bit. in the end, the flames got a quite servicable defenceman who is willing to play the game in a way that all good teams require (take the hit to make a play, get down to block a shot, get nasty in front of the net kind of way). Flames needed that, have a pretty crappy d-core, and then injuries on top of that.

The fact that we got one from a rival who's d is much worse than the flames (in all the regards mentioned above), and the fact it cost little to the flames is just gravy. Then, looking at it from the oilers perspective, where they gave up one of the only players who has those qualities or knows anything about playing defense is even better. THEN when you consider the MacT, i'm impatient/bold moves new GM trading this player for players that aren't helping the oilers become a playoff team in at least 3 years is even better.

Can't tell if you're a closet/cloaked oiler fan or not, but almost any NHL fan can find this trade just laughable. Oilers suck, their management is flat out stupid, and the fact that they are a flames rival makes it all the more fun. Does that burn to read or are you really not an oilers fan here?

Doesn't burn at all to read. Just an opinion. Different strokes for different folks.

I thought it was a fair trade. Smid is probably worth is contract, but I don't think he's worth a whole lot more than 3.5M. Good teams probably are able to develop guys like him during his cheap years. Flames were able to get his contract for a cheap price. I'm cool with that, but I don't think it's a steal. I think the Oilers got an equal benefit from the cap savings.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Doesn't burn at all to read. Just an opinion. Different strokes for different folks.



I thought it was a fair trade. Smid is probably worth is contract, but I don't think he's worth a whole lot more than 3.5M. Good teams probably are able to develop guys like him during his cheap years. Flames were able to get his contract for a cheap price. I'm cool with that, but I don't think it's a steal. I think the Oilers got an equal benefit from the cap savings.

So is he worth his contract?
Or is he a mediocre, easily replaceable bottom pairing guy.

Because a mediocre bottom pairing guy that is easily replaceable is not worth 3.5 million to any team.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by strombad

So is he worth his contract?
Or is he a mediocre, easily replaceable bottom pairing guy.

Because a mediocre bottom pairing guy that is easily replaceable is not worth 3.5 million to any team.

On the free agent market he might be.

If you can't develop internally that is the reality organizations face to acquire players. Ideally you don't have to pay guys like Smid 3.5M, but many teams have to when they dip their toes in the free agent market (or in this case acquiring contracts from other teams for minimal assets).

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

On the free agent market he might be.



If you can't develop internally that is the reality organizations face to acquire players. Ideally you don't have to pay guys like Smid 3.5M, but many teams have to when they dip their toes in the free agent market (or in this case acquiring contracts from other teams for minimal assets).

Teams don't pay 3.5 million for mediocre third pairing defencemen that are easily replaceable. It literally does not happen in any scenario.

He cannot be both worth his contract, and a mediocre third pairing defenceman who is easily replaceable, one of the two is wrong, and popular opinion would be the latter.

[Da_Chief]

Welcome to Calgarypuck Patrick Bateman.

[Red John]

Originally Posted by strombad

Teams don't pay 3.5 million for mediocre third pairing defencemen that are easily replaceable. It literally does not happen in any scenario.

He cannot be both worth his contract, and a mediocre third pairing defenceman who is easily replaceable, one of the two is wrong, and popular opinion would be the latter.

Game set and match. It seems hawkfan's end goal here is to convince everyone Smid is a 3rd pairing guy. He isn't.

He's a No. 4 guy. He has always played top-4 minutes although not on the PP, he moves the puck adequately but that isn't his game. He's a strict stay-at-home defensive guy who plays physical, kills penalties, can take shifts against top offensive players and generally helps provide a modicum of stability for whatever 5-man unit is on the ice at that time. He isn't an elite shut down guy but a good one and isn't going to get into trouble with mistakes.

Not offensive enough to be a No. 3/PP guy, not elite enough defensively to be a top-pairing shutdown guy, but he's also not a 3rd pairing guy whose goal is to soak up 12-15 minutes and hope to not be a weak link. That describes guys like O'Brien and Butler and to group Smid in with them is silly.

He is making exactly what No. 4 guys make - $3.5 million/year and that makes him neither a bargain nor overpaid. He's come as advertised and the Flames defense has been much improved in December which has helped the goalies gain a bit of confidence too.

He could probably be flipped for a pair of 2nds at the deadline or similar return should Burke so choose, or be kept and continue to provide stability to a blueline as the rebuild progresses. Either way that's a win for the Calgary Flames.

[Alberta_Beef]

I think this trade was a very big win for the Flames.

Yes, we received a "4/5" defenseman that is more proficient in the defensive zone than he is a puck mover or offensive weapon. But that is exactly why this is a big win for the Flames.

We were desperately in need of a physical stay at home defenseman that is able to play on the PK and assume bigger minutes when called upon, Smid fills that void perfectly. No only that but he fits the identity that we are trying to personify, which is to work hard and leave it all on the ice every night.

The added bonus is him being an elite shot blocker, we already had 2 of the top shot blockers in the NHL and adding to that strength is just icing on the cake.

Honestly I am not sure there was another defenseman available that fit our team as well as Smid does right now, never mind one that was available for the cost of our worst goaltending prospect and a guy who never projects to be more than a non-physical 3rd liner.

[FBI]

I'm 6'5

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

I guess the question is whether Smid was even worthy of the $3.5 cap hit, which could be argued on both sides.

I think his cap hit is good for what he brings on the ice. But the thing is: given the Flames' situation right now in regards to contracts and salary cap, they don't have to care if he's a tad overpaid or not. Without going on a crazy spending spree in July, the Flames will be close to the cap floor, which should be around $52m next season ... I'd argue that Smids $3.5m are more a blessing than a curse for the Flames in that situation. Plus I'm sure that the cap will rise and rise, so when Smids contract is in its final stages, $3.5m will look like a bargain for a solid #4/#5 defenseman.

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Hence why they passed by him in 2 drafts?

so? The draft is not perfect. Players develop at different rates. There'll always be late bloomers who are drafted late or even go undrafted, only to go on and have successful NHL careers. There'll always be guys that peak early and don't develop as hoped. It happens.

Martin St Louis. Dan Boyle. Mark Giordano. Antti Niemi. Curtis Glencross. Dustin Penner. Alex Burrows. Rene Bourque. Dan Girardi. Niklas Backstrom. Jonas Hiller. Chris Kunitz. Sergei Bobrovsky. Tyler Johnson. Zbynek Michalek. Tyler Bozak.

just a few names of good current NHLers that were undrafted.

[Flashpoint]

You can set aside all the advanced stats for a simple reason.

Smid is an NHL player. The other guys aren't. There is no point comparing them, because we got a 27(?) year old NHL defenseman for essentially nothing.

The best part being Smid was a rebuild piece from the Pronger deal, so we not only get to capitalize on that massive massive incompetence by managing our own rebuild correctly and having the cap space available to take advantage, we also get to watch the Oilers eat their own young.

I like Smid's heart and willingness to protect his teammates. The blocked shots are just a bonus.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by devo22

Martin St Louis. Dan Boyle. Mark Giordano. Antti Niemi. Curtis Glencross. Dustin Penner. Alex Burrows. Rene Bourque. Dan Girardi. Niklas Backstrom. Jonas Hiller. Chris Kunitz. Sergei Bobrovsky. Tyler Johnson. Zbynek Michalek. Tyler Bozak.

just a few names of good current NHLers that were undrafted.

No!

[moon]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Smid is a shutdown guy. Just because he's not elite at it doesn't mean that isn't his job. He isn't in the NHL because of his amazing foot speed and 100mph shot. So what would you call him then?

By that definition then Chris Breen is a shutdown defenseman, SOB is a shutdown defenseman. They aren't in the NHL because of their amazing footspeed and 100 mph shot.

I would call him a defenseman. He isn't used to shutdown the other teams best players because he is not good enough.

You hated him before he even set foot in Calgary and I think if he played like Lidstrom you'd still find a way to hate him.

Not true at all but I guess if you have nothing to argue might as well make up some bogus hypothetical situation and then make up what my reaction would be.

And a fake tough guy? He isn't trying to be tough he is just trying to stick up for teammates even if it means he gets his ass kicked. He has more heart than any Flames defensemen not named Gio and is the only one to do something when our goalie gets touched.

He is a fake tough, and called that by many Flames fans before he got here, because he usually starts the punching/pushing once the linesmen are present to make sure he doesn't actually have to back-up his actions.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by moon

By that definition then Chris Breen is a shutdown defenseman, SOB is a shutdown defenseman. They aren't in the NHL because of their amazing footspeed and 100 mph shot.

I would call him a defenseman. He isn't used to shutdown the other teams best players because he is not good enough.



Not true at all but I guess if you have nothing to argue might as well make up some bogus hypothetical situation and then make up what my reaction would be.



He is a fake tough, and called that by many Flames fans before he got here, because he usually starts the punching/pushing once the linesmen are present to make sure he doesn't actually have to back-up his actions.

Maybe a fake fighter... he's clearly relatively tough considering how he plays the game.

[moon]

I agree he has heart and toughness to take the shots he does and come back.

I said fake tough guy which usually implies fighter in my mind.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by moon

By that definition then Chris Breen is a shutdown defenseman, SOB is a shutdown defenseman. They aren't in the NHL because of their amazing footspeed and 100 mph shot.

I would call him a defenseman. He isn't used to shutdown the other teams best players because he is not good enough.



Not true at all but I guess if you have nothing to argue might as well make up some bogus hypothetical situation and then make up what my reaction would be.



He is a fake tough, and called that by many Flames fans before he got here, because he usually starts the punching/pushing once the linesmen are present to make sure he doesn't actually have to back-up his actions.

Since I would argue most people view 'stay at home' and 'shutdown' defenseman as the same thing, can we call him a stay at home D and call it a life?

Stop arguing over adjectives.

ALSO. I know this is a case of causation does not = correlation, but since Smid has been on the team (And yes, Gio being back as well...) they started being able to get through games allowing only one goal. That's something.

[moon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Since I would argue most people view 'stay at home' and 'shutdown' defenseman as the same thing, can we call him a stay at home D and call it a life?

Stop arguing over adjectives.

I wouldn't call them the same thing but sure stay at home defenseman works to describe all 3 guys.

Considering those adjectives can mean vastly different things to people not sure why they should be ignored or not discussed.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

not every trade is for a blockbuster/1st line player in order to be deemed a success.

Flames got a defenceman who's willing to battle, a guy who's ranked #9 in the entire league for blocked shots, and is definitely a mainstay anywhere in the #4-6 spot in the dcorpse. They traded him for a horak/broissot.... as an oiler fan, how many trades can oiler fans live through that only provide potential hope 3 years down the road??

in the end, the flames got the better NHL'er today, and we can debate this point 3 years down the road, but i am confident it will be a close call even then.

I think it was a good trade. I liked it when it was made, and I like it now. Smid fills a real need on this team. But it's okay for someone to point out his limitations in a substantive and reasonable manner, isn't it? Or can we only do that with Butler?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by moon

I wouldn't call them the same thing but sure stay at home defenseman works to describe all 3 guys.

Considering those adjectives can mean vastly different things to people not sure why they should be ignored or not discussed.

They can me different things to you and me, but we're crazy people.