[News] Feaster and Weisbrod relieved of duties. Burke will hire a new GM

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Having a GM in place before the draft won't do any good. When Button was hired as GM, Dallas made it a condition that he couldn't participate in the draft as he was privy to Dallas' inside information. Burke has said that the hiring requires patience, so I'd think it happens this summer.

I wouldn't be shocked if it took until the offseason. Burke can take care of the trade deadline and let Button and his staff do their thing will likely some input in the draft. Wether the GM comes before (won't be able to have draft input) or after it won't matter much as long as Burke get's his guy.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by nik-

Isn't that why teams have scouts, why not just do it themselves?

Cause knowing what other teams think of players gives you power in trades and the draft.

Probably not the best example but what if Futa tells LaFontaine somehow the Kings think the world of underated Joe McFranchise'dman and are willing to trade up to grab him in the 2014 draft. Sabres would have that knowledge and perhaps reevaluate him and potentially block the Kings from getting him by picking him earlier.

If there was no concern that confidential information would be shared somehow then why don't the Kings let teams talk to Futa with the condition that any team would not be able to sign him until the Summer?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by macrov

I believe the trades were:

Kotalik + regehr for butler

2nd round pick for Byron

I remember feaster saying that

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Partially correct:

Regehr for Butler + Byron was the basis of the trade.

Feaster waned Kotalik added. Buffalo agreed, but pulled out Byron.

Flames added a 2nd to keep the original trade complete with the addition of Kotalik.

You can write it up a number of ways really, but when Feaster broke it down, he tried to 'sell' the trade by saying he felt that Byron was closer to the NHL than anyone they could have drafted that year with the 2nd. So while saying Feaster traded a 2nd for Byron isn't wrong by any means, it cost the Flames a 2nd to unload Kotalik's contract.

Regehr = Byron + Butler
Regehr + Kotalik = Butler
Regehr + Kotalik + 2nd = Byron + Butler

That is how I remember Feaster breaking down the trade.

In the end, it was all about getting the tagging room to re-sign Tanguay and Glencross, but mostly to make a big pitch at Richards. Had they spoken to Kotalik, they would have discovered he would rather return to Europe rather than stay in the AHL. The Flames would have acquired Byron and Butler for Regehr, without having to give up a 2nd.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't see why people would be pissed at a team wanting to interview a lot of people. Say yes or say no, why be mad because they're casting a broad net?

Is only GM search. Why you heff to be mad?

[macrov]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Disagree there.

The Flames team that lost to Chicago could have done some damage in the playoffs if healthy. That was the Flames best team post lockout by far.

What should have happened that offseason was they should not have overreacted and threw the balance of the team off by getting rid of all our secondary scoring to bring in another big ticket d-man.

If the re-build was going to start early, it should have started the next season after they missed the playoffs for the first time.

That was a great team...you look at that team, and your right. It was an amazing team if not for the playoff injuries that derailed them. They had to gamble and felt jokinen was the missing piece; and he did have a great playoff series against the hawks. Keenan knew how to utilize jokinen...a ppg pace while Keenan was coaching him.

Sutter did very well for a long time, but the jaybo signing and sutter hiring was the beginning of the end. They lost cammy and later found out jokienen and iggy had no chemistry under Brent Sutter. Jaybo and Phaneuf also didnt work well with Brent. When phaneuf was traded to find a player for Iggy (stajan) it didn't work because Brent was an awful coach. Instead of trading Dion, Daryl should have come back to the bench.

2009 playoff team

Cammy langkow iggy
Glencross Jokinen bourque
Moss Conroy bertuzzi
Nystrom Boyd premeau

Phaneuf aucoin
Regehr Leopold
Giordano sarich
Erikson

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Had they spoken to Kotalik, they would have discovered he would rather return to Europe rather than stay in the AHL. The Flames would have acquired Byron and Butler for Regehr, without having to give up a 2nd.

This is not even a factor, it was well known Kotalik would go back to Europe rather than being demoted. Even being sent to Europe he still has to be paid his contract. It comes down to the simple fact the Flames gave away a 2nd round pick in order to save $3 million in cold hard cash.

[Vinny01]

The summer of 2008 was amazing for Darryl. He replaced Tanguay, Husslieus, Nolan, Yelle with Cammalleri, Bertuzzi. Glencross, Bourque. His draft initially looked great. Nemisz and Wahl busted but Bouma and Brodie are turning out to be players. That team in 09 was great and it was a huge mistake letting both Bert and Cammy go especially Cammy. With Bouw wanting to come on board the move should have been Dion for picks/prospects to recoup what was lost in the Jokinen deal and free up the ones to keep Cammalleri.

Giving up the 1st in the Jokinen trade and getting zero youth in the Dion trade left Feaster with an ugly situation to walk inherit. Jay did a decent job of drafting getting Monahan, Gaudreau, Baertschi, Gillies in addition to some other intriguing prospects. He did lose most trades he made, and nearly crippled the franchise for years chasing a number 1 Center.

[macrov]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

He made a few really good trades with middle round assets, but as Burke said in the presser, Feaster was fired because he terrible at getting full value for our best assets.

To show for our core of Iginla+Bouw+Regehr+2nd, the best asset we got were two late 1st round picks, Hantowski, Agostini, Berra, Cundari, Butler and Byron. That is downright embarrassing. IMO in a few years, Feaster will go down as one of the worst GMs in the NHL of the past decade when it came to trades.

Two first round picks in a draft class said too be comparable to 2003...

22nd pick in 2003: kessler
28 pick in 2003: Correy Perry

1st round draft picks do not have the same value year after year. Perhaps the reason the return seems so low is b/c the first round picks in the 2013 draft were being valued so highly.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

This is not even a factor, it was well known Kotalik would go back to Europe rather than being demoted. Even being sent to Europe he still has to be paid his contract. It comes down to the simple fact the Flames gave away a 2nd round pick in order to save $3 million in cold hard cash.

I don't think it was well known. In fact, Feaster did not even talk to Kotalik at all during the off-season if I am remembering an interview correctly. Us fans WANTED Kotalik to go to Europe. We assumed he would ask to go to Europe rather than remain in the AHL when first demoted there. To most people's surprise, Kotalik worked hard and was a good leader on the Heat (according to Ward, Horak and some other Heat players they interviewed). Feaster must have assumed that Kotalik was just fine with staying in the AHL for another year.

Regier was the one that spoke to Kotalik about his chances at making the Sabres' roster, and Kotalik volunteered returning to Europe if he did not make it.

Also, it wasn't to save cash. It was to gain tagging room. Flames really couldn't re-sign Tanguay and Glencross before free agency as they did not have the tagging room.

However, the definitive proof that the Flames were not looking to simply save a couple of bucks was that they were willing to overpay Richards. I forget the exact dollar value of the offer (including bonuses), but if memory serves it would have made Richards a 10million+ player over the next few seasons. It was a relatively blatant cap-circumvention contract - everyone knew Richards would not play all those years anyways, so I would say it shows that the Flames were not counting pennies at all. They then went on to make some front office moves (AGM, scouts) spending even more cash. Saving cash didn't seem like a priority that year at all based on the subsequent moves and attempted moves.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't think it was well known. In fact, Feaster did not even talk to Kotalik at all during the off-season if I am remembering an interview correctly. Us fans WANTED Kotalik to go to Europe. We assumed he would ask to go to Europe rather than remain in the AHL when first demoted there. To most people's surprise, Kotalik worked hard and was a good leader on the Heat (according to Ward, Horak and some other Heat players they interviewed). Feaster must have assumed that Kotalik was just fine with staying in the AHL for another year.

Regier was the one that spoke to Kotalik about his chances at making the Sabres' roster, and Kotalik volunteered returning to Europe if he did not make it.

Also, it wasn't to save cash. It was to gain tagging room. Flames really couldn't re-sign Tanguay and Glencross before free agency as they did not have the tagging room.

However, the definitive proof that the Flames were not looking to simply save a couple of bucks was that they were willing to overpay Richards. I forget the exact dollar value of the offer (including bonuses), but if memory serves it would have made Richards a 10million+ player over the next few seasons. It was a relatively blatant cap-circumvention contract - everyone knew Richards would not play all those years anyways, so I would say it shows that the Flames were not counting pennies at all. They then went on to make some front office moves (AGM, scouts) spending even more cash. Saving cash didn't seem like a priority that year at all based on the subsequent moves and attempted moves.

Regehr's 4.02 million cap being shipped out cleared enough for the raises for Tanguay (raise of 1.8 million) and Glencross (raise of 1.35 million) because Butler was a restricted free agent and Byron would not count against the cap

So no the tagging room excuse is simply not true. This move was made to save cash to throw the vault at Brad Richards. I know Feaster claimed it was for tagging purposes, but the facts prove otherwise.

[killer_carlson]

There was lots of talk on the Blues game that St Louis considers the JBo trade to be one of their top 10 best ever.

[getbak]

Not to comment on the quality of the return the Flames received, but from the Blues' perspective, they really didn't give up anything significant for Bouw other than a bottom 10 first round pick.

They let Russell go for virtually nothing because they have too much depth on D, so Cundari wasn't likely to get a shot in St Louis. Berra wasn't going to overtake Elliott and Halak, let alone Jake Allen, who went 9-4 and played in 15 games for the Blues last year. Even the draft pick has lower value for a team in win-now mode like the Blues.

[$ven27]

The more I think about it the more angry I get. Feaster F'ed is over on all of our biggest trading chips (Regehr, Iggy, Bouwmeester, Tangs), just a complete moron of a gm.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by $ven27

The more I think about it the more angry I get. Feaster F'ed is over on all of our biggest trading chips (Regehr, Iggy, Bouwmeester, Tangs), just a complete moron of a gm.

Blame the owners for their need to hang onto the playoffs for these two. Iggy and Regehr should've been traded a couple of seasons before they actually were. Regehr was a shell of a man by the time he was traded.

The Bouwmeester trade wasn't great, but we acquired the guy for a 3rd and fairly useless (at the time) Leopold. And just the season before people were calling for him to be waived.....so getting a 1st, a decent goalie, and a minor league prospect is not totally terrible asset management.

I'm not really sure what value you expected out of Tanguay. I don't think that guys value was very high this summer after his pity party of a season.

It's ok to be angry about not getting enough out of the trades, but at least put a little context into that anger.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Having a GM in place before the draft won't do any good. When Button was hired as GM, Dallas made it a condition that he couldn't participate in the draft as he was privy to Dallas' inside information. Burke has said that the hiring requires patience, so I'd think it happens this summer.

It might not do any good with Burke calling the shots, but it's theoretically a good idea to have a GM in place before the draft. It's not just about changing the direction of the draft. After the trade deadline there's usually inactivity until pretty much after teams have fully prepared their draft lists. Things usually heat up just before the draft until July 1st when free agency start. So you normally want the new GM (who is the decision maker moving forward) forward to be in place before the draft because a franchise's fortunes can change on draft day or just after it.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Blame the owners for their need to hang onto the playoffs for these two. Iggy and Regehr should've been traded a couple of seasons before they actually were. Regehr was a shell of a man by the time he was traded.

The Bouwmeester trade wasn't great, but we acquired the guy for a 3rd and fairly useless (at the time) Leopold. And just the season before people were calling for him to be waived.....so getting a 1st, a decent goalie, and a minor league prospect is not totally terrible asset management.

I'm not really sure what value you expected out of Tanguay. I don't think that guys value was very high this summer after his pity party of a season.

It's ok to be angry about not getting enough out of the trades, but at least put a little context into that anger.

Nevertheless, stupidity by the Flames staff has cost the Flames.

[Zulu29]

Wtf is tagging??? Fancy word for cap space?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

There was lots of talk on the Blues game that St Louis considers the JBo trade to be one of their top 10 best ever.

You'd think they'd wait to actually win a playoff series before declaring themselves geniuses.

(that said.. they clearly hosed Feaster)

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

You'd think they'd wait to actually win a playoff series before declaring themselves geniuses.

(that said.. they clearly hosed Feaster)

Yeah, in their shoes I'd still feel like we got rid of useless pieces (Berra) for a sorely top D. Basically made Bouwmeester cost magic beans.


EDIT - Forgot Butler was from Buffalo for some reason

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Blame the owners for their need to hang onto the playoffs for these two. Iggy and Regehr should've been traded a couple of seasons before they actually were. Regehr was a shell of a man by the time he was traded.

The Bouwmeester trade wasn't great, but we acquired the guy for a 3rd and fairly useless (at the time) Leopold. And just the season before people were calling for him to be waived.....so getting a 1st, a decent goalie, and a minor league prospect is not totally terrible asset management.

I'm not really sure what value you expected out of Tanguay. I don't think that guys value was very high this summer after his pity party of a season.

It's ok to be angry about not getting enough out of the trades, but at least put a little context into that anger.

Regehr was such a shell that he got a bigger return two years later, went to the conference finals and then got a 2 year extension. He very clearly has a lot left in the tank.