How are the other top picks doing?

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Barkov also picking it up now when the Panthers have started competing. Five points in his last five games. If he had an elite winger like the others I think he'd be right up there with the rookie scoring leaders.

Barkov is strong at both ends of the ice but I don't think his positioning in the offensive zone has been quite as natural as some other rookies. Might be the linemates too. Haven't watched lately though. Still, only 5 points behind MacKinnon.

I like that the youngest player in the league is already good enough to carry his line and win 50% of his faceoffs. When the points start coming more regularly, maybe people will begin to notice.

Florida's top centers are 21 and 18 years old. And then they have the calder winner too. They could be building a team over there. Or not.

Hertl can still win Calder if he misses a dozen games. But in general rookies go through ups and downs so the point race is still wide open. Maybe MacKinnon is the favorite because he's in a position where he seems to be in on a lot of offense in Colorado, but we'll see.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Muta

Tomas Hertl... available at our first round selection last year, before we dropped spots to pick wunderkind Jankowski, who, if you ask Feaster, will be the best player coming out of that draft. Apparently we knew something no one else did.

Ouch.

Might still turn out to be an okay pick even though there's not much optimism at the moment. Kind of sucks that players picked right around the Flames pick are having so much success. Makes him seem like the wrong choice because it was thought that the talent level at that point of the draft wasn't great anyway so you could take the long shot.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by devo22

Its a valid point. Not sure if its "beating a dead horse". Jankowski was a wild pick and we passed over some really good looking prospects

Hertl
Teravainen
Ceci
Maatta

Its a thread about how other top picks are doing, I think its fair to compare to guys we took, in fact, I think thats the point.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Muta

Tomas Hertl... available at our first round selection last year, before we dropped spots to pick wunderkind Jankowski, who, if you ask Feaster, will be the best player coming out of that draft. Apparently we knew something no one else did.

Ouch.

For context, when we ran a poll prior to the draft of who the Flames should pick, Hertl wasn't even on the radar on this site:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/poll.ph...lts&pollid=820

Jankowski was.
You picked Sebastien Collberg

It is just too easy to cherry pick who they SHOULD have picked years later.
EDIT: I'm not sure if everyone figured Hertl would be gone by then which is why he wasn't on the poll at all. That could be the case - can't recall

[Henry Fool]

On Barkov (and perhaps other defensively responsible rookies), when I watched him earlier it was clear that he didn't have enough energy to fully push offense after defending. It's something that Granlund said last summer, that he found out that he could play in the NHL and do his defensive duties, but the obstacle then is having enough strength left in the shift to go on offense after you've spent so much on defending. So his training focused on pushing him beyond his limits physically and mentally to expand his window of effectiveness each shift. Just something you have to take care of once you've experienced NHL first hand.

At least back then Barkov had one of the highest ratios of ending shifts in the offensive zone in his team. Mostly that's a credit to him but partly it must have been because he ended his shifts after defending where a veteran forward might be able to continue with the attack longer. But like I said I haven't watched him lately at all.

Probably something that affects many rookies who are taking care of the defense, especially centers I imagine.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Its a valid point. Not sure if its "beating a dead horse". Jankowski was a wild pick and we passed over some really good looking prospects

Hertl
Teravainen
Ceci
Maatta

Its a thread about how other top picks are doing, I think its fair to compare to guys we took, in fact, I think thats the point.

oh, it IS a valid point. I'm not disagreeing at all, I'd love to have a guy like Hertl on the Flames. But hindsight is always 20/20 ... it's so easy to point the finger a few years later. I just think that the complaining about the Jankowski pick has got a bit out of hand on CP since the Feaster firing and Burkes remark about mediocre drafting.

They went for the long-term project. It happens. Even if Janko busts - I bet there's not a single top manager in the league who has never picked a bust in the first round. Burke himself has drafted at least three (Smith, Mitera, MacMillan), maybe four (Biggs). IMO all this "we should have drafted player X instead" talk overshadows that Feaster actually did a very fine job at drafting. 2011 was pretty much a perfect draft - Sven has the tools to be an impact player, Granlund has been outstanding in Abby, Wotherspoon is a solid prospect and Brossoit helped us get Smid. Plus, you know, that Gaudreau kid is pretty good. Outside of the Janko risk, there's not much to debate about 2012 either. Sieloff will be a fan favorite in Calgary and Gillies looks like a steal in the 3rd round. Kulak and Culkin are solid too. 2013 was great too ... no need to talk about Moneyhands. It speaks volumes that Burke wasted no time signing both Klimchuk and Kanzig, and you have to think Poirier will be the next in line. Feaster/Weisbrod have pretty much nailed every selection in the early rounds over the last 3 drafts, except for Janko ... and the jury is still out there. People are so eager to blast them for taking the risk on Janko that they seem to forget that Feaster/Weisbrod have obviously done a pretty good job at the draft in general.

I really hope Jankowski pans out. Not only because the Flames would benefit tremendously, but also to prove the nay-sayers wrong. I believe in this kid. Not in a "best player of the draft" way (it was horrible from Feaster to say something like that publicly ... like "we expect you to be the best of the draft ... but no pressure kid" ^^), but in a "has all the potential to become a good NHLer" way.

I hope Janko stays away from reading message boards and stuff like that right now. Pretty sure that the firing of his two biggest fans was a shock for him, and now people are writing him off when he's one third into his college career. It's ridiculous.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

For context, when we ran a poll prior to the draft of who the Flames should pick, Hertl wasn't even on the radar on this site:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/poll.ph...lts&pollid=820

Jankowski was.
You picked Sebastien Collberg

It is just too easy to cherry pick who they SHOULD have picked years later.
EDIT: I'm not sure if everyone figured Hertl would be gone by then which is why he wasn't on the poll at all. That could be the case - can't recall

18 months later a few of them are contributing in the NHL. That's where the current pessimism comes from. Doesn't mean that Jankowski isn't a future player, but as a fan of a rebuilding team, it's painful to watch the "consensus" options do better. Not just one player but several of the others they could have taken.

Really, it's an inevitable discussion when you pick a long project with your first pick.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

For context, when we ran a poll prior to the draft of who the Flames should pick, Hertl wasn't even on the radar on this site:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/poll.ph...lts&pollid=820

Jankowski was.
You picked Sebastien Collberg

It is just too easy to cherry pick who they SHOULD have picked years later.
EDIT: I'm not sure if everyone figured Hertl would be gone by then which is why he wasn't on the poll at all. That could be the case - can't recall

Hindsight is 20/20, but damn... the others listed:

Teravainen
Ceci
Maatta

... were all right around where we should have picked. Two have already played in the NHL already (not including Hertl), and all four have been consensus good picks.

I still wonder why we knew something others didn't. It's too early to tell with Janko, but I would have been happy with those other four - all discussed, right on this board, as players Calgary should potentially pick.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Barkov is strong at both ends of the ice but I don't think his positioning in the offensive zone has been quite as natural as some other rookies. Might be the linemates too. Haven't watched lately though. Still, only 5 points behind MacKinnon.

I don't think you can underestimate this in his case. He is playing with Sean "frickin" Bergenheim (7pts) and Brad "fricking" Boyes (14pts) when Hertl plays with Thornton, Nichuskin with Benn&Seguin and even Monahan has a guy like Hudler who is still almost a PPG player.

But yeah, he still gets gassed out pretty fast and his shifts are generally quite short. Defensively he is already probably Florida's best forward, which is pretty insane. Against Toronto he spent the last 1.5 minutes of the game on the ice defending the lead and won two defensive zone face-offs to seal the game. Speak volumes about the confidence their coaching staff already has on him.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I don't think you can underestimate this in his case. He is playing with Sean "frickin" Bergenheim (7pts) and Brad "fricking" Boyes (14pts) when Hertl plays with Thornton, Nichuskin with Benn&Seguin and even Monahan has a guy like Hudler who is still almost a PPG player.

But yeah, he still gets gassed out pretty fast and his shifts are generally quite short. Defensively he is already probably Florida's best forward, which is pretty insane. Against Toronto he spent the last 1.5 minutes of the game on the ice defending the lead and won two defensive zone face-offs to seal the game. Speak volumes about the confidence their coaching staff already has on him.

He's also a puck possession type of forward and Florida hasn't had any chemistry in that regard as far as I've been able to tell. He gets his points close to the net but his real strengths in the offensive zone come out in prolonged puck possession shifts. He can play a lot of time and space for others but the line needs to be able to not turn over the puck or end the attack prematurely. The Panthers don't have much talent in that regard. The passing overall is awkward.

I'm sure the coach loves him. Guys like him and Monahan, never have to worry about them.

[MissTeeks]

“@KKurzCSN: I can confirm through a team source that Hertl will miss at least a month and "maybe a lot more." He's getting an MRI now. #SJSharks”

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by devo22

oh, it IS a valid point. I'm not disagreeing at all, I'd love to have a guy like Hertl on the Flames. But hindsight is always 20/20 ... it's so easy to point the finger a few years later. I just think that the complaining about the Jankowski pick has got a bit out of hand on CP since the Feaster firing and Burkes remark about mediocre drafting.

They went for the long-term project. It happens. Even if Janko busts - I bet there's not a single top manager in the league who has never picked a bust in the first round. Burke himself has drafted at least three (Smith, Mitera, MacMillan), maybe four (Biggs). IMO all this "we should have drafted player X instead" talk overshadows that Feaster actually did a very fine job at drafting. 2011 was pretty much a perfect draft - Sven has the tools to be an impact player, Granlund has been outstanding in Abby, Wotherspoon is a solid prospect and Brossoit helped us get Smid. Plus, you know, that Gaudreau kid is pretty good. Outside of the Janko risk, there's not much to debate about 2012 either. Sieloff will be a fan favorite in Calgary and Gillies looks like a steal in the 3rd round. Kulak and Culkin are solid too. 2013 was great too ... no need to talk about Moneyhands. It speaks volumes that Burke wasted no time signing both Klimchuk and Kanzig, and you have to think Poirier will be the next in line. Feaster/Weisbrod have pretty much nailed every selection in the early rounds over the last 3 drafts, except for Janko ... and the jury is still out there. People are so eager to blast them for taking the risk on Janko that they seem to forget that Feaster/Weisbrod have obviously done a pretty good job at the draft in general.

I really hope Jankowski pans out. Not only because the Flames would benefit tremendously, but also to prove the nay-sayers wrong. I believe in this kid. Not in a "best player of the draft" way (it was horrible from Feaster to say something like that publicly ... like "we expect you to be the best of the draft ... but no pressure kid" ^^), but in a "has all the potential to become a good NHLer" way.

I hope Janko stays away from reading message boards and stuff like that right now. Pretty sure that the firing of his two biggest fans was a shock for him, and now people are writing him off when he's one third into his college career. It's ridiculous.

This is a great post and I agree. I guess where my personal frustration comes from is Feaster/Weisbrod thinking they can outsmart everyone in hockey. Feaster is admittedly not a "hockey guy" so I think it was a very risky move in that respect. I also think its very foolish for a REBUILDING team to take a project/risky player with a 1st round pick. A rebuilding team should have taken the more proven, more likely to have a quicker impact player.

It may not be fair because they (seemingly) drafted quite well in 2011-2013, however taking a wild stab with one of 3 first round picks in that time is not a fundamentally sound move for a gm in a rebuilding situation. I don't want to write the kid off just yet, but if he does bust, blowing a 1st rounder will ultimately follow Feaster/Weisbrod around as their drafting resume/reputation

[Psytic]

I wonder if our drafting will actually change much at all. I havent heard anything about the scouting staff being let go. Maybe Feaster was just canned for his mismanagement of O'Reilly, Iggy and other administrative blunders and we still see a hockey IQ draft philosophy just with an emphasis on size now.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I wonder if our drafting will actually change much at all. I havent heard anything about the scouting staff being let go. Maybe Feaster was just canned for his mismanagement of O'Reilly, Iggy and other administrative blunders and we still see a hockey IQ draft philosophy just with an emphasis on size now.

I really hope that Burke stays away from canning or reshuffling the scouting staff or the drafting philosphy. The focus on Hockey IQ I think is something that is going to really start paying dividends next year. There are some iffy picks, but all the picks have a high IQ and while you can teach (or work on) some of the physical issues a draftee might have, if they don't have the IQ or heart to make that next level, then they're more likely to not turn into anything.

Either way, I guess we'll know about where the drafting philosophy will shift once the new GM is ushered in.

[Tinordi]

Shinkaruk was cut from the WJC team :-)

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Shinkaruk was cut from the WJC team :-)

I dont even know why we don't like this guy. If I was a teenager and I got drafted by my most hated team and passed over by my favourite home town team twice id be pissy to. Same with Hall, I can't hate either of these guys, you just play the hand you're dealt.

[MissTeeks]

There is no logic to sports hate! I laughed when I saw it.

[Vulcan]

I don't think Jankowski was a great pick in the first round. As has been said, there were better picks available but I'm not writing him off yet as he's still progressing on schedule. First year he established himself at the college level and this year he's getting comfortable at the centre ice position. Next season should tell us more whether we have a dud or not.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I dont even know why we don't like this guy. If I was a teenager and I got drafted by my most hated team and passed over by my favourite home town team twice id be pissy to. Same with Hall, I can't hate either of these guys, you just play the hand you're dealt.

I don't think Shinkaruk was ever a Flames fan.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't think Shinkaruk was ever a Flames fan.

The Shinkaruk family were Flames season-ticket holders — “ever since I can remember” — and Hunter was playing junior down the highway in Medicine Hat.

"“For sure, it was tough,” said Shinkaruk, who eventually went 24th overall to the Canucks. “They had two chances to take me and, after they didn’t take me with that second pick, I kind of sat back in my seat."

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/C...#ixzz2o3fdFBHA

Poor kid. Not only does he have to wear an Orca of shame but his own fellow Flames fans throw him under the bus and actively campaign against his success.