Should the City reconsider the snow removal policy? [Split from weather]

[Slava]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

I really don't need any more than my nenshi 5 years of 5% increases in my taxes because of these "events". My point is that these weather conditions are extreme.

Do I want better snow clearing for the same amount of money or less money? Yes. Now with this extreme weather is to over-react and for an explosion of city pay rates, contracting and many other things to deal with notarized extremes. Just look at Montreal as a prime example.

Now were dragging Nenshi into this? What does he have to do with anything!?

I'm sorry but a 5-10cm snowfall in Calgary is not extreme. I guess we have to agree to disagree there, but we do get snow here. I'm not suggesting the roads ought to be bare and dry, but to have main roads plowed and ready for people to head home isn't asking for too much.

The city had a snow removal survey completed this summer and the results were great. I think they should redo that now that the empathy gap doesn't exist and get some legit results because I doubt everyone is thrilled with it at this point.

[btimbit]

The weather earlier this month, I'll give them props, that was a lot of snow and they did their best.

The last few days? Stupid. Not an above average snowfall, and after the big storm earlier this month you'd think road crews would be laughing at 10cm. I saw two city of Calgary plows yeasturday. Plowing already cleared roads in a flurry of sparks. Brilliant.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by btimbit

The weather earlier this month, I'll give them props, that was a lot of snow and they did their best.

The last few days? Stupid. Not an above average snowfall, and after the big storm earlier this month you'd think road crews would be laughing at 10cm. I saw two city of Calgary plows yeasturday. Plowing already cleared roads in a flurry of sparks. Brilliant.

I'm not defending the terrible job the city has done (or so it appears), but the problem is the plows are confined to Priority 1/2 routes for X amount of time, so Mr. Spraky-Plow probably couldn't go off and plow random side streets, he was probably just cruising around towards the next Priority route that needed plowing.

As for keeping his blade down on dry pavement, I'd imagine he's paid by the km he plows, its the only logical answer for damaging the pavement and the blade. (obviously he isn't)

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I'm not defending the terrible job the city has done (or so it appears), but the problem is the plows are confined to Priority 1/2 routes for X amount of time, so Mr. Spraky-Plow probably couldn't go off and plow random side streets, he was probably just cruising around towards the next Priority route that needed plowing.

As for keeping his blade down on dry pavement, I'd imagine he's paid by the km he plows, its the only logical answer for damaging the pavement and the blade. (obviously he isn't)

Agreed 100%, those were my thoughts as well. But that exposes a bit of a flaw in the priority routes system if that's the case.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Agreed 100%, those were my thoughts as well. But that exposes a bit of a flaw in the priority routes system if that's the case.

There's lots of flaws in the system for sure but throwing money at it isn't the solution. You can't purchase equipment and hire manpower for once in 100 year monthly snow accumulation. If things get back to normal and January/February are much drier you have all this expensive equipment and hundreds of employees sitting and costing taxpayers money for nothing. This leads to city workers needlessly salting and sanding streets when we get a mm of snow because they have been doing nothing for days/weeks which is just excessive and not great for the environment.

[btimbit]

I don't think they should throw more money at it. I'm just here to complain and offer no solutions

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I don't think they should throw more money at it. I'm just here to complain and offer no solutions

I know a guy that used to work for the city and when we get dry winter months they are instructed to sand streets after very minimal snow accumulation that they normally wouldn't since they have been doing nothing for days they feel pressure to go out and work. This is the problem with overspending as they send out workers for the sake of it and all it's doing is needlessly further pumping chemicals into the environment.

[Jimmy Stang]

The thing that many seem to be forgetting is that each time it snows, the focus shifts back to the higher priority roads. Residential snow removal only gets done when the crews aren't actively taking care of recent snowfalls. Sure, it has been a couple of weeks since the first big one, but there have been numerous snowfalls between now and then, and each time the crews have to move away from the side streets and onto the main roads again.

It's the same reason why a snow route parking ban isn't declared until a day or two after the snow falls. There's no point declaring one while the crews are busy taking care of the major routes.

We could have the shiniest fleet of snowplows in the world sitting idle waiting for a snowfall, but the fact is, it would be a waste of money. Calgarians (and humans in general) always want increased services, but don't want to have to pay for them.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm sorry but a 5-10cm snowfall in Calgary is not extreme.

Not alone, but the number of days in a row where there's been substantial snow IS extreme. And that, combined with what Ducay was saying about what gets plowed when, has resulted in the current situation; they've been held to the priority routes since the clock keeps getting reset due to new snowfalls.

They've said it takes 7 days to complete their response, and with normal snowfall amounts and the gaps between them that's ok, but with this month they can't ever get through that 7 days.

That's why they've been talking about adjusting that policy of what routes get cleaned when, so they get to those other roads.

[Boblobla]

I know it is the province, not the city responsible for snow removal on Deerfoot but I would gladly pay more in taxes to prevent something like this from happening.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1039447/2-...utheast-crash/

There is a video at the bottom of the story from a dash cam of the truck coming over the median. All the details are not available but it sure looks like the accumulated snow on the side of the road contributed to the severity of this collision.

EDIT: The video removed the impact but is still pretty ####ed up to watch, I wish I had not watched it.

[photon]

Think maybe the truck wouldn't have gone over the median without the snow? It was facing it pretty good and the truck was pretty tall, vehicles can sometimes go over the medians even without the snow ramp (not sure how strong the "ramp" of snow would be to a truck going that fast either).

The traffic on the side where the truck hit wasn't going very fast either.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I know it is the province, not the city responsible for snow removal on Deerfoot but I would gladly pay more in taxes to prevent something like this from happening.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1039447/2-...utheast-crash/

There is a video at the bottom of the story from a dash cam of the truck coming over the median. All the details are not available but it sure looks like the accumulated snow on the side of the road contributed to the severity of this collision.

It was on Glenmore, not Deerfoot. I think the province (Carmacks) has been keeping up well on Deerfoot.

Also, why would they post that video? I know they edited out the point of impact, but jesus... thats one link I won't be visiting.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I know it is the province, not the city responsible for snow removal on Deerfoot but I would gladly pay more in taxes to prevent something like this from happening.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1039447/2-...utheast-crash/

There is a video at the bottom of the story from a dash cam of the truck coming over the median. All the details are not available but it sure looks like the accumulated snow on the side of the road contributed to the severity of this collision.

The crash was on Glenmore, so it is a city road. But you're right - there are parts of Deerfoot with concrete medians like this (the far South comes to mind in particular). The snow build-up absolutely played a role in this collision, which is even more tragic. Obviously it wasn't the only factor, but I don't think that anyone can deny that the truck was helped over the median by the snow.

It just makes me feel sick to my stomach to hear about that poor boy who died. My son is about the same age and news like this hits me even harder as a parent.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by photon

Think maybe the truck wouldn't have gone over the median without the snow? It was facing it pretty good and the truck was pretty tall, vehicles can sometimes go over the medians even without the snow ramp (not sure how strong the "ramp" of snow would be to a truck going that fast either).

The traffic on the side where the truck hit wasn't going very fast either.

I am not sure if it would have gone over with no snow but I have for sure seen vehicle slam into those baricades going pretty quickly and not just pop over into oncoming traffic. I think it may have played a part. It also appears the truck might have been travelling too fast for the conditions but I am not sure.

Originally Posted by Ducay

It was on Glenmore, not Deerfoot. I think the province (Carmacks) has been keeping up well on Deerfoot.

Also, why would they post that video? I know they edited out the point of impact, but jesus... thats one link I won't be visiting.

I misread the article and got the roads backwards. It is a brutal clip to watch, even with the impact removed, knowing the outcome. Wish I hadn't tbqh.

[Russic]

Such a brutal tragedy. My boys are the same ages as the ones in the accident, so it was pretty jarring to hear about. I can't even comprehend what that would be like.

The video sure does make it look like the snow played a huge factor (of course that's the opinion of somebody who doesn't understand exactly what happens when a truck hits a median). That conclusion is certainly up to investigators, but it appears as though the snow pretty much acted as a ramp and little else.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I am not sure if it would have gone over with no snow but I have for sure seen vehicle slam into those baricades going pretty quickly and not just pop over into oncoming traffic. I think it may have played a part.

Yeah.

Originally Posted by Boblobla

It also appears the truck might have been travelling too fast for the conditions but I am not sure.

Yeah kind of looked that way to me too, like the truck came up on traffic a bit too fast and then braked too much, starting the skid, but hard to tell for sure.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by photon

Not alone, but the number of days in a row where there's been substantial snow IS extreme. And that, combined with what Ducay was saying about what gets plowed when, has resulted in the current situation; they've been held to the priority routes since the clock keeps getting reset due to new snowfalls.

They've said it takes 7 days to complete their response, and with normal snowfall amounts and the gaps between them that's ok, but with this month they can't ever get through that 7 days.

That's why they've been talking about adjusting that policy of what routes get cleaned when, so they get to those other roads.

I actually have no issue with them not plowing residential routes. My issue is that we got 10cm of snow and people could hardly make their way out of downtown, down Macleod trail, etc. due to the road conditions. Those are exactly the kinds of roads that ought to be a priority as those are major arteries.

I have no issue with the clock being reset either, because that makes perfect sense to me. Its just obvious that the plan is not effective enough to respond to what seems like a fairly routine blast of "regular winter" here. I've lived in Calgary for basically my entire life, and 10cm is nothing new and unforeseen except maybe to the most unprepared or people with extreme short-term memory only.

[Jimmy Stang]

Does anyone know if the police keep statistics on tire type when they consider factors of collisions? I'm not going to derail this by going on my winter tires soapbox, but it would be an interesting statistic to see. I'm sure that the insurance industry would find that interesting as well. We often hear about speed, alcohol, inattentiveness, medical condition, etc. being factors.

Edit: And this is unrelated to the tragic collision on Glenmore - just a general thought.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by Slava

I actually have no issue with them not plowing residential routes. My issue is that we got 10cm of snow and people could hardly make their way out of downtown, down Macleod trail, etc. due to the road conditions. Those are exactly the kinds of roads that ought to be a priority as those are major arteries.

I have no issue with the clock being reset either, because that makes perfect sense to me. Its just obvious that the plan is not effective enough to respond to what seems like a fairly routine blast of "regular winter" here. I've lived in Calgary for basically my entire life, and 10cm is nothing new and unforeseen except maybe to the most unprepared or people with extreme short-term memory only.

One of the things that really bothers me are people who don't move their cars during the parking bans. We should stop being lenient on people who don't move. The city should have a time that they are going to do a major road and send out all the tow trucks 30 mins before they start to plow and tow everyone's cars. A ticket isn't going to make people move. I drive down 12th everyday and some of those cars haven't moved in weeks.

If the plows can get the whole road in one pass it makes it exponentially better going forward compared to having to weave in and out of parked vehicles who don't bother moving

[kevman]

How are you going to tow car's before the plow comes? If the roads are really that bad, you'll just get the tow truck stuck...