Who do we hope ends up GM?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by dammage79

It is utterly amazing how many of CP's members have written off Jankowski. Or at the very least are lumping him in with all the other failures.

Second year of college and a bust! Sheesh some of y'all have no patience in seeing the process through to the end.

Do you think it is writing him off or is it a function of calling Feaster out on his sales and hype job on our prospects because the results just aren't there.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dammage79

It is utterly amazing how many of CP's members have written off Jankowski. Or at the very least are lumping him in with all the other failures.

Second year of college and a bust! Sheesh some of y'all have no patience in seeing the process through to the end.

I just think people don't feel the need to sell themselves on the hype anymore since the people that annointed him are gone. He may turn into something, but probably not, he shows flashes, and he's improved over last year, but I don't see him as being where he should be compared to the faith the last management group lumped on him. There is always going to be defending and buying in to the managements choices because that's who's running your team and you're telling yourself it was a good choice because you want to trust the people running the show. It's the same as after the Dion trade. A lot of people, myself included, sold themselves on that as being ok, but it wasn't.

[dammage79]

It's been pretty well documented since the second that Jankowski was drafted that he was a long term prospect. A prototypical Late Bloomer IMO.

Sprouts 8 inches in height in two years, skipped in the OHL draft due to his size. Has the Skill, the height and soon the weight to be a competent NHL'er.

It's not the sell job Feaster was pushing that should have people writing Jankowski off. Nor the fact he was a Feaster and Weisbrod pick. It should be about the end result of his College career. Not half way through it and because he was a Feaster pick. The peppering of the FoI forum of the Jankowski hate is premature and impatient.

That is just an opinion but closer to the facts than the blind jabbing at everything the previous management team did. Let the kid develop, we all knew and still know he was on a longer development arc from the get go.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

It's been pretty well documented since the second that Jankowski was drafted that he was a long term prospect. A prototypical Late Bloomer IMO.

Sprouts 8 inches in height in two years, skipped in the OHL draft due to his size. Has the Skill, the height and soon the weight to be a competent NHL'er.

It's not the sell job Feaster was pushing that should have people writing Jankowski off. Nor the fact he was a Feaster and Weisbrod pick. It should be about the end result of his College career. Not half way through it and because he was a Feaster pick. The peppering of the FoI forum of the Jankowski hate is premature and impatient.

That is just an opinion but closer to the facts than the blind jabbing at everything the previous management team did. Let the kid develop, we all knew and still know he was on a longer development arc from the get go.

Not trying to derail but what hurts Jankowski is that we see players like Maata and Hertl contributing at the nhl level while we are 2 1/2 years away from seeing Jankowski at the pro level. Burke made a big fuss about how the team can't afford misses at drafting and believe this was a direct shot at Feaster and Weisbrod making this pick. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Burke either deals his rights or lets him go unsigned so we get a comp 2nd round pick.

If we take Feaster at his word, other teams were interested in Jankowski later in the first round. Pittsburgh, Florida, Boston, St Louis, Vancouver, Phoenix, NYR, NJ and LA drafted after us, who would be the likely suspects that would have drafted Jankowski and wonder if these or other teams would give up assets for his rights?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Not trying to derail but what hurts Jankowski is that we see players like Maata and Hertl contributing at the nhl level while we are 2 1/2 years away from seeing Jankowski at the pro level. Burke made a big fuss about how the team can't afford misses at drafting and believe this was a direct shot at Feaster and Weisbrod making this pick. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Burke either deals his rights or lets him go unsigned so we get a comp 2nd round pick.

If we take Feaster at his word, other teams were interested in Jankowski later in the first round. Pittsburgh, Florida, Boston, St Louis, Vancouver, Phoenix, NYR, NJ and LA drafted after us, who would be the likely suspects that would have drafted Jankowski and wonder if these or other teams would give up assets for his rights?

No offense, but I think you're trying to read too much between the lines of Burke's comments about drafting and peg holing Jankowski alone to fit in there. As we all know, Burke doesn't beat around the bushes too much so selectively choosing a player you're not as high on as others to suit a conversation is a stretch at best.

His comments about Sven back that up. I take his comments like a blanket issue over the drafting process and cannot focus on one single player.
Drafting is a crap shoot. Hertl's break out has just a much to do with his line mates as it does with his skill set and size. Hertl is also almost one year older if you want to make an argument there and that his development is one year further along.

At the time I wanted Teravainen or Maata as well. But that's the gamble with drafting. But to lump Jankowski in as a bust now is again, Premature and Impatient.

We will see.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

In my experience, when we have to rationalize moves by coming up with reasons why they might not suck, they end up being the wrong moves. Sure, Nieuwendyk might be a diamond in the rough. Just like Cervenka, Jankowski, and Ramo. Or Jay Feaster, for that matter.

You seriously can't see the difference between each of the comparables you suggested here and Joe Nieuwendyk?
· Cervenka, while technically a rookie, was also a grown man who had played professional hockey for a number of years already. Nieuwendyk was a YOUNG, ROOKIE general manager when he started his tenure in Dallas.
· Jankowski is STILL A ROOKIE, which in some ways illustrates my point: it's too early to write him off as a bust. After only four years on the job in Dallas, it is also a little premature to suggest that Nieuwendyk is forevermore a terrible GM.
· Ramo?! Currently looks like a bonafide NHL goaltender; what's your problem with him?
· Feaster was a re-tread. Nieuwendyk is still enough of an unknown commodity to suggest that he might be a quality, long-term GM.

All I am suggesting is that he MIGHT still have a bright future. None of us knows one way or the other, and I wouldn't be surprised both if he lands another GM job again, and if he is successful at it. As I mentioned earlier, rookie GMs almost never become instant successes. There is lots of learning on the job, and Nieuwendyk appears to be no exception.

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Question marks like that are almost always question marks for a reason, and Nieuwendyk feels no different. If we're rolling the dice on someone I'd rather it be someone who doesn't have a terrible track record attached to his name.

Well, you're a fan of the team who views everything from a considerable distance, and all filtered through the organisation and the media. Your or my or any other fan's "feelings" are irrelevant. I am highly confident that if the Flames elect to offer Nieuwendyk the GM position (and for the record, I don't believe this is likely to happen, nor is he one of my preferred candidates), then it will not be a product of "rolling the dice". It will come as a result of Burke's due diligence and careful scrutiny to ensure that he has hired the right person.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Not trying to derail but what hurts Jankowski is that we see players like Maata and Hertl contributing at the nhl level while we are 2 1/2 years away from seeing Jankowski at the pro level...

But this should come as no surprise, even if you hated the pick in the first place. Management and observers—including those who loved the Jankowski pick—cautioned that this was a long-term project, but that the payoff could potentially be huge. If you're disappointed, I have to wonder what were you expecting? Did you imagine that every one of the other players selected in Jankowski's range would also be long-term projects? Very strange.

[dissentowner]

I think it will be Burke. He will go through all the motions and then in the off season will say he did not feel there was a suitable candidate interested in the job and he will do both jobs,

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Question marks like that are almost always question marks for a reason, and Nieuwendyk feels no different. If we're rolling the dice on someone I'd rather it be someone who doesn't have a terrible track record attached to his name.

You can't hire someone with no question marks. A potential candidate with no question marks simply doesn't exist.

I also wouldn't call Nieuwendyk's track record terrible, when I saw the link to all him moves in another thread it surprised me how good some of the moves were, prior to that I just focused on the Neal trade and assumed he was terrible, but that is simply not the case.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I think it will be Burke. He will go through all the motions and then in the off season will say he did not feel there was a suitable candidate interested in the job and he will do both jobs,

It doesn't fit the timeline. If Burke were really intent on filling the job himself, I seriously doubt that he would have dismissed both Feaster and Weisbrod only two weeks before Christmas.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It doesn't fit the timeline. If Burke were really intent on filling the job himself, I seriously doubt that he would have dismissed both Feaster and Weisbrod only two weeks before Christmas.

Agreed. the hand-wringing over Burke handing the job to an old Maple Leafs pal doesn't make sense in terms of the time-line, either. If he were going to just hire Poulin, why not wait until the new year?

He obviously felt last week that if he waited any longer he might get scooped by Buffalo for one of the prime candidates. Perhaps talks between Buffalo and one of the candidates that appeared to be hotting up have cooled, allowing Burke to breathe a bit. Or maybe he just wanted the flexibility to strike quickly in the event something develops over the holidays.

In any case, there is very little on which to base speculation about his taking the job himself, or handing it to one of his guys.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But this should come as no surprise, even if you hated the pick in the first place. Management and observers—including those who loved the Jankowski pick—cautioned that this was a long-term project, but that the payoff could potentially be huge. If you're disappointed, I have to wonder what were you expecting? Did you imagine that every one of the other players selected in Jankowski's range would also be long-term projects? Very strange.

I'm not disappointed nor a Jankowski hater. I'm just presenting a theory why the hate is on for Jankowski. People see players from that draft contributing already and we are having to wait to see if/when he will pan out. Couple this with Burke who is admittedly impatient and you could get the impression Jankowski's rights might be on the move if it accelerates the rebuild. I remember comments being made about Jankowski being afraid of his shadow in the draft previews which doesn't bode well for his future with the new regime.

Back to the original topic. Per hope smoke twitter, McKenzie says search for new GM is going slow and that Burke is a big fan of Mike Futa. Maybe Burke has been told he won't be available until season's end and will carry the load until then?

Hope_Smoke
‏@Hope_Smoke
Mckenzie on TSN Radio "Flames are not moving quickly in their GM search. Other than Nieuwendyk Burke hasn't asked for permission for others"

Hope_Smoke
‏@Hope_Smoke
McKenzie "Burke really likes Mike Futa of the Kings. The Leafs were very close to hiring him prior to his going to LA"

[Da_Chief]

Here's how this plays out (or I want it to).

-Burke Stays on as GM for rest of the season and makes trades
-Button runs the draft and scouting for rest of the year
-Burke gets permission on Futa at the end of the year
-Futa gets the GM gig after the draft
-Futa fires Button and brings in his own guys as scouts
-Hartley and staff get fired
-Hires Bill Ranford as the new head coach

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Here's how this plays out (or I want it to).

-Burke Stays on as GM for rest of the season and makes trades
-Button runs the draft and scouting for rest of the year
-Burke gets permission on Futa at the end of the year
-Futa gets the GM gig after the draft
-Futa fires Button and brings in his own guys as scouts
-Hartley and staff get fired
-Hires Bill Ranford as the new head coach

I was with you until the very bottom one.

[Trailer Fire]

Bill Ranford? You mean the guy currently serving as the Kings goalie coach? That's a lot of Kings management we'd be pilfering.

[Da_Chief]

For a promotion, I'm sure those guys would move. It's a system but Kings have been producing some good NHL goalies so maybe not head coach but assistant coach. He will help for sure imo.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I'm not disappointed nor a Jankowski hater. I'm just presenting a theory why the hate is on for Jankowski. People see players from that draft contributing already and we are having to wait to see if/when he will pan out. Couple this with Burke who is admittedly impatient and you could get the impression Jankowski's rights might be on the move if it accelerates the rebuild. I remember comments being made about Jankowski being afraid of his shadow in the draft previews which doesn't bode well for his future with the new regime.

Back to the original topic. Per hope smoke twitter, McKenzie says search for new GM is going slow and that Burke is a big fan of Mike Futa. Maybe Burke has been told he won't be available until season's end and will carry the load until then?

Hope_Smoke
‏@Hope_Smoke
Mckenzie on TSN Radio "Flames are not moving quickly in their GM search. Other than Nieuwendyk Burke hasn't asked for permission for others"

Hope_Smoke
‏@Hope_Smoke
McKenzie "Burke really likes Mike Futa of the Kings. The Leafs were very close to hiring him prior to his going to LA"

What does that even mean? I don't remember it in any of the draft previews I read, though I can't quite remember them all that clearly now. Which one stated that?

Though I won't classify Jankowski as overly-physical, the kid has scored some goals this season from crashing the net looking for rebounds.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

What does that even mean? I don't remember it in any of the draft previews I read, though I can't quite remember them all that clearly now. Which one stated that?

Though I won't classify Jankowski as overly-physical, the kid has scored some goals this season from crashing the net looking for rebounds.

If I remember correctly it was from an "anonymous" scout right after Jankowski was drafted. I'll see if I can dig it up, but it was basically just a troll piece.

Edit: Found it, and it was an Eric Francis piece quoting an anonymous "high-profile agent."
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../19931326.html

CALGARY - Roughly an hour after the Calgary Flames defied conventional wisdom by drafting high-school star Mark Jankowski 21st overall, one high-profile agent made a ruthless prediction.

“The kid will never play in the NHL,” he wrote in an unsolicited email.

“I saw him play several times. He’s scared of his shadow.”

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

If I remember correctly it was from an "anonymous" scout right after Jankowski was drafted. I'll see if I can dig it up, but it was basically just a troll piece.

Edit: Found it, and it was an Eric Francis piece quoting an anonymous "high-profile agent."
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../19931326.html

as a fan of the flames, i find it imperative and intelligent to more or less ignore whatever Eric Francis says/writes.

just my opinion of course.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Do you think it is writing him off or is it a function of calling Feaster out on his sales and hype job on our prospects because the results just aren't there.

Yeah, I agree. Most people are expressing the sentiment that there were safer choices with short term payoff.

When the cupboards are bare, I think you want to fill them. Getting a kid who is 5 years away is not really filling them.

I remember that Feaster said it was a risk and a long term prospect whose upside was 1c. I think some people heard what they wanted to.