McKenzie NHL Expansion targets: #1 Seattle and #2 Las Vegas

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Corporate support would likely come from the casinos so I don't think that would be a problem. I do agree with you that the town is not very wealthy. Lots of the people that live there full time do not have very high paying jobs. For me, Vegas is a total crapshoot. It could be either a total bust, or it could be genius.

Maybe things have changed over the past ten years with the current US economy. But at one time, Vegas was one of the few places where a good percentage of the work force could earn over $50,000 a year with only a high school education. (you have to remember that $50,000 goes a long ways because of the lower cost of living in the US). Plenty of construction jobs, dealers making good money with tips. Not that long ago it was the land of opportunity.

[Tyler]

You thought Winnipeg would be in tough to attract free agents? Try Quebec City. Will be a disaster faster than Winnipeg summer

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Outside of the strip, I don't get the impression that LV is a very wealthy city. I wouldn't imagine there would be a lot of A) corporate support B) civic pride or C) sizable fan base that would make it work.

They don't really need corporate support, though. They will have support from probably every hotel/casino on the strip which will make up the difference and then some.

TV deal might be where it falls off some. The area isn't that big in population so I can't see them making a ton on their regional deal.

Another question is if you add Las Vegas and Seattle it creates an alignment question. Who goes to the Central? Probably either Vegas or Phoenix which isn't ideal.

[automaton 3]

Vegas is a real head-scratcher. It has the potential for corporate support, but a small population base and is not particularly prosperous in terms of household income. Lots of competition in terms of entertainment as well. I don't see it being a better opportunity than Quebec or Toronto 2.

[the_only_turek_fan]

In my ideal world, I would move a team like FLA to Seattle and have 15 teams in each conference.

We do not need more teams.

[Arsenal14]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

They don't really need corporate support, though. They will have support from probably every hotel/casino on the strip which will make up the difference and then some.

Do you think the casinos on the strip would be that eager to send their customers off-strip to watch a game? I'm not sure they would but I really don't know. Of course, if the rink is built in a partnership with one of the two big casino groups (MGM/Caesars) that would encourage them to support it.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Arsenal14

Do you think the casinos on the strip would be that eager to send their customers off-strip to watch a game? I'm not sure they would but I really don't know. Of course, if the rink is built in a partnership with one of the two big casino groups (MGM/Caesars) that would encourage them to support it.

The new arena (partnership between MGM and AEG) is going to be built right next to New York New York and Monte Carlo.

[BurningSteel]

This has success written all over it. "Hey you guys come over here for a min. How would you like some free tickets? You just need to come to a presentation that wont take more then 2 hours. In exchange you can go see Cirque, or Blue Man Group of Front Row tickets for the LV _________ vs Pheonix Coyotes!!! I know right?"

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Arsenal14

Do you think the casinos on the strip would be that eager to send their customers off-strip to watch a game? I'm not sure they would but I really don't know. Of course, if the rink is built in a partnership with one of the two big casino groups (MGM/Caesars) that would encourage them to support it.

If that's their first/only pro sports team, I think they would get behind it and I'm sure that they would be able to leverage it with potential game/hotel packages or other incentives (sign up for our players card and get two free tickets). Plus, they know that there will be a large crowd at the game itself so they're going to want in-arena signage and probably promotions as well to get them from the rink back to their casinos.

The rink is also a partnership with MGM.

[Flash Walken]

Would a Las Vegas club have to pay a territorial encroachment fee to any of the california teams or phoenix?

[BurningSteel]

Here the leaked proposed seating theyre going to use.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by devo22

I don't see LV being that risky. Looking at the average attendance of the Las Vegas Wranglers in the ECHL:

2011-12: 4,339
2012-13: 4,561
2013-14: 4,689

Stable numbers and always right around the league average. Not saying that it's a prime hockey market or anything, but if you can get 4,500 people into a god damn ECHL game, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to get a 14,000 or 15,000 people into an NHL game on a regular basis. Especially with all the tourists and a nearly unlimited range of possible combo-tickets.

I attended a Wranglers game when I was in Las Vegas a few years ago - that arena they play in is absolutely spectacular and makes the Saddledome look like a complete dump. Movie Theatre style seats which are extremely comfortable, decent prices on concessions (IIRC), massive wall screen TV to watch the play / reviews and great viewing angles.

I came away so impressed with it. I'm not surprised they get that much for attendance.

[_Q_]

So with markets like Kansas City, Houston, Milwaukee, Portland, and even Austin, the NHL decides to go full ###### and explore going into another market that's almost guaranteed to fail in Las Vegas. Well I guess that's par for the course.

[spetch]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Vegas is a real head-scratcher. It has the potential for corporate support, but a small population base and is not particularly prosperous in terms of household income. Lots of competition in terms of entertainment as well. I don't see it being a better opportunity than Quebec or Toronto 2.

1.9 million is small??

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Would a Las Vegas club have to pay a territorial encroachment fee to any of the california teams or phoenix?

No. It's over 400km from any of the other teams. It's over twice as far as Ottawa is from Montreal, and the Senators didn't pay anything to the Habs.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by spetch

1.9 million is small??

It's the 30th largest CSA in the US. As far as NHL markets go, only Raleigh (34), Nashville (35) and Buffalo (50) are smaller. And Buffalo's doesn't count nearby Ontario.

[Phil Russell]

Count me in as skeptical on LV as an expansion market. Yes, I am sure the casinos and hotels could put a few bums in seats but I don't see hockey as a hugely attractive entertainment choice for visitors. Who would they cheer for? Why would you go if you don't care about the teams playing? There has to be a local fan base and this part of the US is not hockey interested. I also hate LV so maybe I am biased, but this would be a risky bet for expansion.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't think the NHL will be able to ignore this gold mine for long. Money talks. Rogers will want a team here:

http://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/webcam..._ensemble.aspx

I think it very unlikely that Quebec is a "gold mine". At best, it is probably a slightly better market than Winnipeg, only because they can build a larger arena.

What is McKenzie's source for any of this? Daly has said publicly many times that expansion is not on the NHL agenda.

"Insiders" no doubt. Daly was floating expansion trial balloons in some of his comments right before the 2008 market crash. And, we of course, know that Quebec, Markham, Seattle and Las Vegas have all talked seriously about building new rinks. The NHL's current division alignment screams expansion too. The league may not be talking about it publicly, but it is obviously in their minds.

The real question is timeline. We're obviously not talking 2014-15. It's probably five years out at this point.

[SuperMatt18]

Couple of reasons it could work:

Huge Canadian tourist spot
Hotel/Casino Comps
Corporate Support
Gives the locals their "own team"
Gambling Potential (place bets from your seat on other games, next goal, next penalty, etc).

And with AEG/MGM owning the rink and being a potential ownership group there is a ton of potential.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/first-...133000871.html

[stemit14]

Biggest risk in Vegas is the same reason none of the other major sports have tried to put a team there... there's too many other choices when it comes to entertainment and people don't come to Vegas to watch hockey.