[OT] Faithful fans getting fed up with mediocrity: Jets losing sales sizzle

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Lol I said it from day one. As soon as the hype wears off they'll be in trouble again.

LOL and I said from day one you would be wrong and to date you still are.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by VO #23

The Jets are an arm (albeit an important arm) of True North Sports and Entertainment's business model, which also includes the MTS Centre and every event there; all entertainment events at Investors Group Field; much of the SHED development downtown; etc.

I don't think things are as dire, business-wise, for TNSE as some in this thread would have you believe.

^This.

[Jason14h]

David Johnson is worth north of 20 billions and the Jets are part of an operation including a Casino and sports bars.

Trust me, the Jets will be just fine even if no one shows up for their games.

[Badgers Nose]

It's all Jokinens fault.

[SeeBass]

I do think the Flames are in much more dire need of a new rink than the Peg.

Winnipeg is not a great place but their sports rink, ball park and stadium are much better than Calgary's situation.

Calgary always wants to be considered a world class city but when we have people whine about an expensive footbridge it sure makes getting the bigger ticket items like new arenas look a long ways off.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

David Johnson is worth north of 20 billions and the Jets are part of an operation including a Casino and sports bars.

Trust me, the Jets will be just fine even if no one shows up for their games.

Oh good! Glad the NHL moved a franchise to Winnipeg that will just stick around without much fan support or interest when other cities are looking towards full sized arenas and an interested fanbase. Sounds kind of like what Peggers were whining about when Atlanta and Phoenix had franchises they wanted.

Winnipeg is a dump. Not many people live there, plus it's cold. There's no excitement except the hockey, though now that people aren't excited about hockey there's none at all. No park, no entertaining for the families, for the kids.

[Cheerio]

Winnipeg fans don't have to worry about the Jets leaving for at least 10 years, when the league has expanded to 32 teams. And I don't think Phoenix is as much of a joke as you think it is pylon, I was down there a couple weeks ago and it was louder than the Saddledome

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

LOL and I said from day one you would be wrong and to date you still are.

Don't you worry. They'll be fine for about 5 years but we will see where they'll be in 10 years. Not in Winnipeg is my guess. The novelty is starting to wear off and I am loving it.

We will even welcome you back on the Flames bandwagon once they're in Las Vegas.

[White Out 403]

A bit of a non story imo. Jets fans are starting to deal with the fact this team won't make the playoffs this year, and likely won't have a real sniff until the year after next (something I've come to terms with a long time ago). Yet the Jets are still making a ton of cash, have lengthy season ticket holder agreements in place, and a very long line up of people waiting to get a chance to buy season tickets.

I really don't think a handful of singles not being sold until last minute at a discount is a big deal. At a discount these tickets are being sold for a higher price than most teams average ticket price. This team is still a) Doing very well financially b) is backed by rich owners in c) a hockey crazy city.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Total non-story. Guess the Flames are on their way out of Calgary, too. Look at how many tickets are available for this game:

http://www.ticketmaster.ca/calgary-f...004B1EA06BAB4C

Meanwhile, I can count on two hands how many available tickets there are for all the rest of the Jets home games in December (four games, 9 available tickets).

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

David Johnson is worth north of 20 billions and the Jets are part of an operation including a Casino and sports bars.

Trust me, the Jets will be just fine even if no one shows up for their games.

Bull####. These guys become billionaires because they recognize a losing proposition and dump it. If the Jets can remain self-sufficient he will do what he did to become a billionaire; find another sucker to buy them or move them to another city (hello Quebec City!).

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I do think the Flames are in much more dire need of a new rink than the Peg.

Winnipeg is not a great place but their sports rink, ball park and stadium are much better than Calgary's situation.

Calgary always wants to be considered a world class city but when we have people whine about an expensive footbridge it sure makes getting the bigger ticket items like new arenas look a long ways off.

Yeah, the Flames can seat an extra 4,000 people per game, and do, and they are the ones in dire need of a new building?? Get serious. The Jets' average ticket price is a whopping $276.69 per seat, and that's down 20% from last year. Average price for the Flames is 262.10, up 25% from the previous year. The difference in revenues, just in seat sales, is almost $43M a season. Who needs the new rink?

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bull####. These guys become billionaires because they recognize a losing proposition and dump it. If the Jets can remain self-sufficient he will do what he did to become a billionaire; find another sucker to buy them or move them to another city (hello Quebec City!).

He also owns almost all the land and developments around the arena so even if they did lose money as a hockey club, as long as he's making money overall and using the team as a catalyst to do so it's still a worthwhile investment.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, the Flames can seat an extra 4,000 people per game, and do, and they are the ones in dire need of a new building?? Get serious. The Jets' average ticket price is a whopping $276.69 per seat, and that's down 20% from last year. Average price for the Flames is 262.10, up 25% from the previous year. The difference in revenues, just in seat sales, is almost $43M a season. Who needs the new rink?

Average ticket price of the remaining 4,000 seats in the Saddledome is nowhere close to $262.10.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Average ticket price of the remaining 4,000 seats in the Saddledome is nowhere close to $262.10.

That is true. Let's rework the numbers then, based on the average ticket prices and potential revenues just from seat sales.

Flames have a capacity of 19,289 @ 262.10 X 41 games = $207,281,522.90

Jets have a capacity of 15,004 @ 276.69 X 41 games = $170,209,727.16

A difference of $37,071,795.75. Off by a little less than $6M.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

$170 million just from seat sales and we're talking about their viability as a market? Also, starting next year they'll be getting $45 million per year in TV revenue (national and regional).

[The Yen Man]

How much of True North Entertainment does David Thompson own anyways? Depending on how much he owns, the only thing Winnipeg may have is an owner with deeper pockets, seeing as Thompson is the richest guy in Canada (net worth of over 20 billion vs. Murray Edwards, who only has around 2 billion). But then again, these guys didn't become billionaires by investing long term in a losing business model. So I guess the real question is, how much are the Jets willing to lose every year to have a competitive team?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

$170 million just from seat sales and we're talking about their viability as a market? Also, starting next year they'll be getting $45 million per year in TV revenue (national and regional).

Yeah, viability is an issue. Everyone else is making more money and is more competitive. At some point that is going to wear on the fans and they will fall into the same malaise that gripped the team when it moved to Phoenix. Cheering for a loser is not fun and it will result in lost season ticket purchases and less revenues. When that starts to happen you can't blame an owner for looking at potential better markets. If Quebec or Markham became available as an alternative to Winnipeg you think there would be some consideration on the part of the current owner?

[VO #23]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

How much of True North Entertainment does David Thompson own anyways? Depending on how much he owns, the only thing Winnipeg may have is an owner with deeper pockets, seeing as Thompson is the richest guy in Canada (net worth of over 20 billion vs. Murray Edwards, who only has around 2 billion). But then again, these guys didn't become billionaires by investing long term in a losing business model. So I guess the real question is, how much are the Jets willing to lose every year to have a competitive team?

I believe TNSE is jointly owned by Mark Chipman and David Thomson, with Thomson being a minority partner. Chipman is no slouch either, though (not sure of his net worth but he is a very successful businessman in his own right).

And who says that this is a "losing business model"? The Jets are an economic driver for many other parts of the business. All reports suggest that TNSE is doing just fine.

[TurnedTheCorner]

I think the important thing to remember, regardless of whether TNSE is structured so that it is profitable overall despite the Jets financial performance or whether Thomson and Chipman are in it for the long haul, is that Winnipeg sucks.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by VO #23

I believe TNSE is jointly owned by Mark Chipman and David Thomson, with Thomson being a minority partner. Chipman is no slouch either, though (not sure of his net worth but he is a very successful businessman in his own right).

And who says that this is a "losing business model"? The Jets are an economic driver for many other parts of the business. All reports suggest that TNSE is doing just fine.

For now, but what happens when the the Canadian dollar goes down and the salary cap goes up? Will they still be making any money with such a small corporate base? I'll admit, I've never been to Winnipeg or the MTS Centre, so I'm not too familiar with TNSE's situation. If it is as a poster above stated, and the Jets are merely a catalyst to get people into downtown to spend money, then I can see the model working. Just speaking solely of the Jets, I don't see how they can be profitable long term without other revenue streams outside of the team subsidizing them.