Burke Philosophy VS Feaster Philosophy

[strombad]

I'm not sure what the OP is seeing in all the teams he listed. All of those teams, save for MAYBE Pittsburgh, is built like a "Burke" team (if that's what you want to call it) or built closer to that than a "Feaster" team.

There aren't really any teams that are successful with a bunch of small speedy guys that have moderate offensive prowess.

A Feaster team is what we are. Either Feaster completely failed at instituting whatever his philosophy was supposed to be, or a "Feaster" team is a bad team.

Either way, we are far better off with Burke.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Pittsburgh is a very physical team.

I don't think they have a single regular player who is under 5'11 on their roster and they were one of the top hitting teams last year..

Just because they've got Crosby on their team doesn't mean they don't play a similar style to Burke's philosophy and somehow that reflects well on Feaster?

Physical and dirty. Cooke may have toned things down but he was running amok for a while there and you see guys like Neal play dirty on a regular basis.

[moon]

Originally Posted by macrov

Instead, in my head, it comes down to team philosophy. And I like Feaster's more than Burkes:

Feaster: Intelligent players, who play a 200ft game, have good character, skilled.

What evidence is there of this?

He signed Hudler and Wideman who are not intelligent players. Traded for Butler who is neither intelligent or skilled. Galliardi isn't intelligent, skilled or a 200 ft player. Russell wasn't much of a 200ft player prior to this year and isn't much of one now. SOB is as dumb and unskilled as they come. D. Jones is not very skilled, intelligent and doesn't have much of a 200 ft game. Cerevenka doesn't have a clue what his side of center looks like let alone knowing what to do if he is there.

Even a guy like Baertschi has had questions raised about his 200 ft. game.

Burke signed guys like Selanne and Niedermayer, not exactly neanderthals. Traded to get Kessell, Gardiner. Drafted Kadri and the Sisters.

But look closer: Detroit and Pitsburgh are build like a Feaster team - 2-way players who are intellegent and skilled. I think Anahiem and Chicago are actually built more like a Feaster team as well. Boston and LA are cross-breeds - big, skilled, 2-way, and intelligent. In fact, the only Burke team out there is Toronto.

The 3rd/4th lines of Chicago and Pittsburgh are filled with guys like Bollig, Sutter, Cooke, Glass, Bickell, Shaw, Vitalle, Adams, Carcillo, Bolland. Hard nosed gritty guys that Burke loves to have on his bottom 6.

People take Burke's get Bigger/tougher view way too literally. He has always been fine with skilled guys on his teams and gone out of his way to get elite talent on his team.

[PeteLFan]

All I can remember was how incredibly frustrating it was playing a team like Anaheim that just handled us easily. The top line shut is down and the skilled players out played ours.

Anaheim was big and very difficult too play.

Toronto has a talented young D and some good forwards.

Burke knows what he doing and trust his vision more then feaster. We
Need big players and we need skill guys.

[Vulcan]

I don't think Feaster really had a philosophy as far as building a team goes. It looked like he saw a player with good stats and was available and signed or traded for him. How many freakin LWers did we have last season and how did this team who were and have always been known for their size and physicality become the smallest and most easily pushed around team in the league? This doesn't even dwell on his ####-ups. It was like amateur hour when Feaster was in charge.

The only thing he's done right is to clear house but this wasn't a plan, it was just a result of his incompetence. Feaster's team was so bad that our best player after 17 seasons of loyal service, decided not to re-sign and moved on. I mean even Button was able to re-sign Iginla because there was hope. With Feaster there was no hope and Iginla knew it.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by moon

What evidence is there of this?

He signed Hudler and Wideman who are not intelligent players. Traded for Butler who is neither intelligent or skilled. Galliardi isn't intelligent, skilled or a 200 ft player. Russell wasn't much of a 200ft player prior to this year and isn't much of one now. SOB is as dumb and unskilled as they come. D. Jones is not very skilled, intelligent and doesn't have much of a 200 ft game. Cerevenka doesn't have a clue what his side of center looks like let alone knowing what to do if he is there.

Even a guy like Baertschi has had questions raised about his 200 ft. game.

Burke signed guys like Selanne and Niedermayer, not exactly neanderthals. Traded to get Kessell, Gardiner. Drafted Kadri and the Sisters.

The 3rd/4th lines of Chicago and Pittsburgh are filled with guys like Bollig, Sutter, Cooke, Glass, Bickell, Shaw, Vitalle, Adams, Carcillo, Bolland. Hard nosed gritty guys that Burke loves to have on his bottom 6.

People take Burke's get Bigger/tougher view way too literally. He has always been fine with skilled guys on his teams and gone out of his way to get elite talent on his team.

Your assessments of Russell and Hudler are right out to lunch. They're probably the two biggest contributors to whatever success the team has had this year. Lmao at Hudler not being intelligent.

We all know of your displeasure of Wideman so its not surprising you went there...again.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Your assessments of Russell and Hudler are right out to lunch. They're probably the two biggest contributors to whatever success the team has had this year. Lmao at Hudler not being intelligent.

We all know of your displeasure of Wideman so its not surprising you went there...again.

moon was wrong about those guys (Russell, Hudler) agreed.. but 200 ft, intelligent players then look at Jones, Butler, etc?

Meh I'm not really convinced the Flames are a team of intelligent 200 ft players at all... to me, they look a little small then even a little 5'9 defenseman beats up our first liner and has him skating back to the bench all alone trying to collect his teeth on the way back. It didn't even make me mad, it just made me feel pity for the Flames.... easy to beat up on the score board, easy to beat up on the ice.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

moon was wrong about those guys (Russell, Hudler) agreed.. but 200 ft, intelligent players then look at Jones, Butler, etc?

Meh I'm not really convinced the Flames are a team of intelligent 200 ft players at all... to me, they look a little small then even a little 5'9 defenseman beats up our first liner and has him skating back to the bench all alone trying to collect his teeth on the way back. It didn't even make me mad, it just made me feel pity for the Flames.... easy to beat up on the score board, easy to beat up on the ice.

Bottom line for me is. Feaster was about 50/50 on the players he brought in. Butler, Jones, SOB were not so great acquisitions.

Hudler, Russell, Wideman were brought and and a doing exactly what they are getting paid to do. Wideman I admit has flaws but RH points producing D men there are not a ton of around. And he produces.

I dislike Butler greatly. He could play well for a full season and still wouldn't get my vote to re-sign. But the intelligence is there outside of Butler and the others like him, it's a matter now of surrounding what the Flames do have with as Burke puts it "Beef".

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Bottom line for me is. Feaster was about 50/50 on the players he brought in. Butler, Jones, SOB were not so great acquisitions.

Hudler, Russell, Wideman were brought and and a doing exactly what they are getting paid to do. Wideman I admit has flaws but RH points producing D men there are not a ton of around. And he produces.

I dislike Butler greatly. He could play well for a full season and still wouldn't get my vote to re-sign. But the intelligence is there, it's a matter now of surrounding what the Flames do have with as Burke puts it "Beef".

Fair enough. 50/50 is about 50%.... thats pretty bad.

I do agree with the first 2 (if you see my post on the day Hudler was signed, argulbly Feaster's best transaction), Wideman has been ok but I wouldn't call him a "win" ..... $5M for a 2nd pairing defenseman, meh.

[Hanna Sniper]

My old signature is what I thought about Feaster's so called Philosophy



Feaster served one role, a transition for one era to another... he's the last of the dirty garbage that needed to be taken to the curb.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by Dion

I hope the Flames made the right decision. Burke has been fired from a number of teams which raises some doubts in my mind. I have fears he might discard the rebuild and try the quicker route of adding vet players via trades and free agency.

I am not saying I am a fan of Feaster or not. I like the guy but I know when the Flames hired Burkie, he will get fired sometime in the season(I was thinking late in the season) or even after the season. I am definitely not a fan of Burke and always think he is overrated. I definitely think the Flames rebuilding year is now over.. it is going to be win now for him. If Burke's plan works then I guess he'll change how I feel about him but I hope he doesn't just trade any player just to prove he is the boss.

[calgARI]

Evidence that Feaster had no plan or knowledge of the game - there was 1 real NHL center on the team last year.

[Scoreface]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

My old signature is what I thought about Feaster's so called Philosophy



Feaster served one role, a transition for one era to another... he's the last of the dirty garbage that needed to be taken to the curb.

I keep thinking of Eddy Beers when I see that. Hmmm...

A train wreck is invevitable when too much of that stuff is passed around. Look up north. Supertankers must be brought in daily!

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by calgARI

Evidence that Feaster had no plan or knowledge of the game - there was 1 real NHL center on the team last year.

Was it Stajan or Backlund?

[Scoreface]

I would only go so far as to say they had no bonafide top 6 center then. They were both awful. They both are better this year, but Backs in particular needs to start putting up some points. He seems to be getting better line mates recently and made a good play on the first goal today.

I'd wait until the deadline to deal Backlund. Sell high as possible, unless he really starts taking the bull by the horns and produces nicely. I think he is what he is though. A decent third line checking center. I just have a hard time figuring out where he fits. Part of it is being used with grinders so much.

I'm glad Feaster is gone before starting to deal before the deadline. The thought scares me a tad. I think he's a decent salesman for free agents, but panders too much in deals.

[Hockeyboy2]

Jay Feasters philosophy centers around Hockey IQ, Character, Speed,

Brian Burks philosphy centers around Size, Aggressiveness, Truculence, Playing well in all 3 zones.

Ideally you find players that overlap these two philosophies, Sean Monohan could develop into someone who does.

[EricCartman]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Your assessments of Russell and Hudler are right out to lunch. They're probably the two biggest contributors to whatever success the team has had this year. Lmao at Hudler not being intelligent.

We all know of your displeasure of Wideman so its not surprising you went there...again.

Wideman is not intelligent at all. His giveaways are awful and all he ever does when the Flames play is shoot at guys going down blocking shots or miss the net.

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by EricCartman

Wideman is not intelligent at all. His giveaways are awful and all he ever does when the Flames play is shoot at guys going down blocking shots or miss the net.

You've just described half the defencemen in the league.
In Wideman's case, it's true.

I took exception to the part about Hudler - he is really smart on the ice and has great vision.

[Scoreface]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

Jay Feasters philosophy centers around Hockey IQ, Character, Speed,

Brian Burks philosphy centers around Size, Aggressiveness, Truculence, Playing well in all 3 zones.

Ideally you find players that overlap these two philosophies, Sean Monohan could develop into someone who does.

Yeah, I don't mind that take on things. Overlap is good, but too much and you end up with too many tweeners most likely being bottom six guys/off the team. On the other hand, you have depth, where guys can maybe transition nicely from the bottom 6 to the top when injuries occur.

Ideally, you have plenty of characteristics in the former group you listed, and a touch of the ones in the second one in some of your guys in the top bunch. Especially the part about a 200 foot game. Need that especially from everybody, save a gifted guy like Gaudreau is ala Patrick Kane, but ONLY if he is that special. Gotta thank Feaster & Weisbrod for that pick. Definitely a guy Burke wouldn't have picked, but the kind of place being the 3rd round for a boom/bust kind of guy.

I have problems with the reach taken in the first round in 2012 on Jankowski. At the time I didn't mind it, but it's such a reach at that point in the draft, as other posters have alluded to. Then again, it wasn't such a strong draft and most of the guys around their original pick (13?) weren't projected to be impact players. Still though, a conservative, solid pick at that stage is likely better than a shot in the dark. Especially given our state of prospect depth at the time. Getting Seiloff was estimated as the incentive to move down, but even he was pretty green in Junior, his only decent body of work being done in the US developmental program. Burke probably would have stayed away from him too for mainly that reason.

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

Yeah, I don't mind that take on things. Overlap is good, but too much and you end up with too many tweeners most likely being bottom six guys/off the team. On the other hand, you have depth, where guys can maybe transition nicely from the bottom 6 to the top when injuries occur.

Ideally, you have plenty of characteristics in the former group you listed, and a touch of the ones in the second one in some of your guys in the top bunch. Especially the part about a 200 foot game. Need that especially from everybody, save a gifted guy like Gaudreau is ala Patrick Kane, but ONLY if he is that special. Gotta thank Feaster & Weisbrod for that pick. Definitely a guy Burke wouldn't have picked, but the kind of place being the 3rd round for a boom/bust kind of guy.

I have problems with the reach taken in the first round in 2012 on Jankowski. At the time I didn't mind it, but it's such a reach at that point in the draft, as other posters have alluded to. Then again, it wasn't such a strong draft and most of the guys around their original pick (13?) weren't projected to be impact players. Still though, a conservative, solid pick at that stage is likely better than a shot in the dark. Especially given our state of prospect depth at the time. Getting Seiloff was estimated as the incentive to move down, but even he was pretty green in Junior, his only decent body of work being done in the US developmental program. Burke probably would have stayed away from him too for mainly that reason.

I have a feeling a Brian Burke managed team never would have drafted Jankowski and he would have been a forgotten memory or a player that we looked at later as (oh look who we could have picked).

The conversation between Burke and the scout would have looked like this:

Scout: Brian you gotta check this out, theres a kid playing hockey for a high school who has tons of talent that you gotta check out for the draft this year.

Brian Burke: Kid playing high school hockey? While raising eyebrow

Scout: Yes Brian and we can get him in the first round

Brian Burke: Kid playing high school hockey....First Round (As he roles his eyes).

Scout: Yes Brian

Brian Burke: Stop drinking the kool aid or i'll fire you. End of conversation.