[News] Feaster and Weisbrod relieved of duties. Burke will hire a new GM

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by YogiBerra

I'm willing to bet if you looked at the players who play the majority of the minutes for each team Edmonton would be near the bottom though most of Edmontons' small players play the big minutes. Eberle, RNH, gagner, ference, etc.. all below league average in weight and/or height

There should be "average height of players on the ice on the average minute of the game" stat. Should be pretty easy to calculate.

[868904]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Hmm didnt like to read this...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/f...brod/?shawct=1

He may have an interesting résumé but his work with the Flames has not shown much. As Feasters "hockey guy", I think it's fair to pin most hockey decisions in him.

I haven't been a fan of the signings at all. Tanguay should not have been re-signed, post apex. Hudler is putting up points on a bad team, but he's very soft and very one dimensional. I know I'm in the minority but I don't think Wideman is all that great. Cervenka is on Weisbrod, Butler is on Weisbrod. Jankowski is on Weisbrod.

The only pattern that I see with Weisbrod's talent evaluation is that he goes for guys who do one thing well but otherwise have major holes in the rest of their game. I dont see a whole lot of two way guys or complete players in their acquisitions. For all the preaching he and Feaster did about hockey sense, with the exception of Hudler, I sure don't see a whole lot.

Oh and the whole building a smurf team was just ridiculous. How often has that worked? If he had a hand in building the Bruins, why did he do the exact opposite of that plan? The team was small and soft enough and all in the same year he re-signs Tanguay, brings in Hudler, trades for Cammalleri, integrates Sven. That's 4 "top 6" guys that can be classified as soft or small or both. Building a small team might have worked in the east, but the Flames are in the west. Why did it take Feaster and Weisbrod the past summer to realize that the team was too small? It should be obvious when you were putting the team together. It just looks like they had no plan and were just throwing a bunch of crap on the wall and seeing what sticked.

[getbak]

The Regehr trade and Tanguay re-signing both occurred prior to Weisbrod's hiring.

[868904]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Regehr trade and Tanguay re-signing both occurred prior to Weisbrod's hiring.

Oops my bad. thanks.

Okay, Burke needs to get to the bottom of who recommended Butler to Feaster then, he could still be in the organization!

Now that I think about the Regher trade, Regier must have been one of those "people" that Burke talked to when evaluating Feaster. Regier must have been like "I thought I'd start the negotiations by low balling Feaster expecting him to ask for more, but he never did. I was prepared to give him Luke Adam and Tyler Ennis and a 2nd rounder, but when he said he was okay with Butler and Byron, I figured, I might as well as for a 2nd rounder as well". ;p

[Delthefunky]

The Regehr return might have hurt a bit, but getting rid of the god awful Kotalik contract was worth something too at the time.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

The Regehr return might have hurt a bit, but getting rid of the god awful Kotalik contract was worth something too at the time.

All it did was offer the opportunity to offer 9/63m to an aging centre who really wasn't going to do much to change the fortune of this franchise. That's not worth surrendering a 2nd round pick if it were a straight cap dump(i.e. no Regehr/Butler involved) but then you consider that they were and it becomes even more head scratching.

[Delthefunky]

I'm really glad that didn't happen...

[Enoch Root]

From the article: "his career has included building a Stanley Cup winner"...

hard to take anything seriously after that

[Calgary4LIfe]

So, Burke didn't really know Weisbrod? That strikes me as a bit of an odd thing then. Why fire a guy you didn't know? I would assume he talked to Weisbrod enough to figure out if he was a positive factor for the Flames, or a negative one - but perhaps Burke relieved him just out of association?

Also, what about Goulet then? As far as I know, he would be the director of professional scouting, right? If Feaster was let go predominantly due to the perceived lack of returns on trades, would Goulet not be responsible for providing Feaster with his thoughts?

I guess I am just wondering why it wasn't Feaster alone at this time, why it was Weisbrod but not Goulet. Would be kind of interesting to know how they interacted in the trades and who had what to say. It just sort of makes me wonder if Burke didn't know Weisbrod, how did he perceive Weisbrod as needing to be let go, and why not the director of professional scouting along with him then?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

The Regehr return might have hurt a bit, but getting rid of the god awful Kotalik contract was worth something too at the time.

Sure it was, but Kotalik volunteered to go to the KHL on his own accord. Feaster apparently didn't even talk to him about this. Sure, Feaster needed the tagging room, but then when you look at the whole situation it was a huge failure all around. Giving up a 2nd just for $3 million in temporary tagging room was just a terrible, terrible move.

[getbak]

At first, I assumed it was just a guilt-by-association thing with Weisbrod. Since he was a Feaster hire, Burke didn't want to keep him around and force him upon the new guy. Give the new guy a clean slate to work with.

However, earlier today, I was listening to one of the interviews Burke gave with The Fan in Toronto (nothing on the Fan 960 site, but there is on the Fan 590, weird), and he said that he and Weisbrod don't see eye-to-eye on their ideas about how to build a team. So, it would appear it was more than just getting rid of Feaster and his guy.


In the past, Burke has been critical of the usage of "advanced stats", whereas, I think Feaster and Weisbrod really embraced them. You have to wonder how long Chris Snow will be with the team if that's the case?

[Ashasx]

That is worrisome. Advanced stats aren't everything, but they are extremely useful if used in context.

Had the Leafs employed their use when deciding what to do with Bozak/Grabovski, they would have seen that Grabovski was the much better player.

I guess that's bad news for Backlund as well.

[Smilt]

just curious, what were the circumstances around Weisbrod leaving Orlando? 14 months isn't a terribly long time to be a GM. Seems like he traded a key part of their franchise, drafted high, and then was gone

And I agree, don't know how he can be credited for the Boston win, with the core that was already established before he got there. For the member of management that "nobody knows", there sure is a lot of hype

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Smilt

just curious, what were the circumstances around Weisbrod leaving Orlando? 14 months isn't a terribly long time to be a GM. Seems like he traded a key part of their franchise, drafted high, and then was gone

And I agree, don't know how he can be credited for the Boston win, with the core that was already established before he got there. For the member of management that "nobody knows", there sure is a lot of hype

IIRC, he left Orlando because he wanted to work in hockey long term, not basketball.

Been a couple days, and I am still not too pleased with what's transpired. Especially reading the post about why Burke let go of Weisbrod.

Maybe Weisbrods vision of how to build a hockey team is bunk, but as a fan, I was all settled in and ready to be patient and let him and Feaster try.

If in a couple years we have a team full of big tough dummies that hit everything that wears a different coloured jersey and moves, but can't play a smart, skilled, puck possession game I will be more disappointed than ever in this organization.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

From the article: "his career has included building a Stanley Cup winner"...

hard to take anything seriously after that

No doubt he played a role in that team but he was just a cog in the wheel in Boston and probably had little influence overall. I don't doubt he's very smart as he sounded like a smart guy when he did the odd interview on 960. My issue is that his NHL credentials really aren't that great. I get that he understands how to build a team having management experience in two different leagues but talent evaluation is a whole new ballpark and the fact that his influence was reduced after his first draft speaks that there were differing opinions within the organization of his acumen of finding talent.

[moon]

Originally Posted by getbak

However, earlier today, I was listening to one of the interviews Burke gave with The Fan in Toronto (nothing on the Fan 960 site, but there is on the Fan 590, weird), and he said that he and Weisbrod don't see eye-to-eye on their ideas about how to build a team. So, it would appear it was more than just getting rid of Feaster and his guy.

There has been a lot of talk, a lot of it from Friedman, that Weisbrod is not well liked around the hockey world and that many were not surprised to see him canned.

You hear a ton of reports that he is smart and has done somethings while in Calgary that are off the board or "his own way" of thinking so perhaps he thinks he is smarter than everyone else and that rubs people the wrong way with that kind of attitude.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by moon

There has been a lot of talk, a lot of it from Friedman, that Weisbrod is not well liked around the hockey world and that many were not surprised to see him canned.

You hear a ton of reports that he is smart and has done somethings while in Calgary that are off the board or "his own way" of thinking so perhaps he thinks he is smarter than everyone else and that rubs people the wrong way with that kind of attitude.

Burke said he did a thorough evaluation and I'm sure he did evaluate Wisebrod as while they may have not spent a lot of time together I'm sure they had more than a few conversations on philosophies. I think he was just being political for Calgary media saying he didn't spend a lot of time with him but at the end he said they did not have a good relationship which to me means they differed on philosophies.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by moon

There has been a lot of talk, a lot of it from Friedman, that Weisbrod is not well liked around the hockey world and that many were not surprised to see him canned.

You hear a ton of reports that he is smart and has done somethings while in Calgary that are off the board or "his own way" of thinking so perhaps he thinks he is smarter than everyone else and that rubs people the wrong way with that kind of attitude.

The Jankowski pick pretty much sums up that attitude, coupled with Weisbrod's assessment that he could be the best player from that draft in 10 years reeks of someone just completely on glue.

It's too bad, because we could have done much better.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

That is worrisome. Advanced stats aren't everything, but they are extremely useful if used in context.

Had the Leafs employed their use when deciding what to do with Bozak/Grabovski, they would have seen that Grabovski was the much better player.

I guess that's bad news for Backlund as well.

Burke went to the MIT Sloan Sports Conference to more or less slander the use of them. He said something like "advanced stats are like lamp posts for a drunk, useful for support but not for illumination" and that "numbers are overrated...it's an eyeball business" so no real surprise. This is at the most prestigious sporting statistics conference in NA, where each sports' best statistical minds present their research, ideas and stories.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

IIRC, he left Orlando because he wanted to work in hockey long term, not basketball.

Been a couple days, and I am still not too pleased with what's transpired. Especially reading the post about why Burke let go of Weisbrod.

Maybe Weisbrods vision of how to build a hockey team is bunk, but as a fan, I was all settled in and ready to be patient and let him and Feaster try.

If in a couple years we have a team full of big tough dummies that hit everything that wears a different coloured jersey and moves, but can't play a smart, skilled, puck possession game I will be more disappointed than ever in this organization.

That article didn't really show me anything. All it talked about is which years he worked in the NHL, and the only 2 relevant decisions mentioned in that article were basketball.

And as said many times in this thread ... Weisbrod was not well liked around the league. Also kind of weird that as an AGM he was never around...... BB is a social butterfly, if he didn't get to know Weisbrod, its probably not because of BB; its because of Weisbrod.