Burke Philosophy VS Feaster Philosophy

[macrov]

I'm disapointed with the Feaster firing. Not because I thought he was especially talented or adept at the finer points of his job - I actually fully agree the trade returns were lacking and he's not a hockey guy. But he had the better team building philosophy, and I think over the long term that's more important.

I strongly believe the major difference between Franchises that are strong and those that are weak is much more than just "drafting ability" or "trading ability" In my head, any team can go out and buy good scouts, and getting a second pick in the Iginla or Jaybo deals, might have been nice, but it's not going to win you a championship.

Instead, in my head, it comes down to team philosophy. And I like Feaster's more than Burkes:

Feaster: Intelligent players, who play a 200ft game, have good character, skilled.

Burke: Skilled players on top 2 lines, Bangers fill out the roster, Non skilled players need high intensity and physicality.

Burke say's look at his Anahiem team. Or his Toronto team. Or other successful teams - Chicago, Boston, LA. And he'll tell you all those teams are built his way and thats the only way to win.

But look closer: Detroit and Pitsburgh are build like a Feaster team - 2-way players who are intellegent and skilled. I think Anahiem and Chicago are actually built more like a Feaster team as well. Boston and LA are cross-breeds - big, skilled, 2-way, and intelligent. In fact, the only Burke team out there is Toronto.

And, if you look closely, you see that Burke's building of Toronto is flawed for this exact reason. Guys like Phaneuf, Kessel, Kadri - their core of the team - they're skilled guys or big guys or both...but they don't think the game well, and from most reports they aren't good character guys, and they don't always play 200ft games.

[PeteLFan]

Brian Burke is the right man for the job. His philosophy is having a big skilled team. That's what wins in our conference, and our division.

The difference between Brian and jay is that Brian is very direct. There is no grey area with him he know what he wants, and this organization sorely lacks that right now.

[FlameZilla]

With any luck Burke will use the foundation of 'smart' players Feaster built & then compliment them with some bigger & stronger skill guys. Burke is (hopefully) not an idiot & must be able to see the value in some of the smarter 2-way players in the system.

He's absolutely right about one thing: this team gets physically dominated by most teams, most nights despite working their little tails off. That is completely Feaster's fault. The guy really seemed to love signing and acquiring small players. Byron, Hudler, Cammy, Russell, Street, Stempniak, Billins, Cundari and Gaudreau are all small, sub-6-foot players he brought in. Anyone can see that an organisation with that many smallish players is going to be physically destroyed.

[Dion]

I hope the Flames made the right decision. Burke has been fired from a number of teams which raises some doubts in my mind. I have fears he might discard the rebuild and try the quicker route of adding vet players via trades and free agency.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by macrov

I'm disapointed with the Feaster firing. Not because I thought he was especially talented or adept at the finer points of his job - I actually fully agree the trade returns were lacking and he's not a hockey guy. But he had the better team building philosophy, and I think over the long term that's more important.

I strongly believe the major difference between Franchises that are strong and those that are weak is much more than just "drafting ability" or "trading ability" In my head, any team can go out and buy good scouts, and getting a second pick in the Iginla or Jaybo deals, might have been nice, but it's not going to win you a championship.

Instead, in my head, it comes down to team philosophy. And I like Feaster's more than Burkes:

Feaster: Intelligent players, who play a 200ft game, have good character, skilled.

Burke: Skilled players on top 2 lines, Bangers fill out the roster, Non skilled players need high intensity and physicality.

Burke say's look at his Anahiem team. Or his Toronto team. Or other successful teams - Chicago, Boston, LA. And he'll tell you all those teams are built his way and thats the only way to win.

But look closer: Detroit and Pitsburgh are build like a Feaster team - 2-way players who are intellegent and skilled. I think Anahiem and Chicago are actually built more like a Feaster team as well. Boston and LA are cross-breeds - big, skilled, 2-way, and intelligent. In fact, the only Burke team out there is Toronto.

And, if you look closely, you see that Burke's building of Toronto is flawed for this exact reason. Guys like Phaneuf, Kessel, Kadri - their core of the team - they're skilled guys or big guys or both...but they don't think the game well, and from most reports they aren't good character guys, and they don't always play 200ft games.

Well a big difference would be despite these "philosophical" attempts, those teams are playoff teams and the Flames are a lottery team.

In the end, any of those "philosophy" stuff doesn't mean crap if you are the worst in the league at that philosophy. If you are following everyone else's blueprint, the end result is you are going to just follow them in the standings as well.

I personally don't really care which philosophy you take, just be the best at your philosophy out there.

[PeteMoss]

Its not as simple as skilled guys on the top two lines, muckers after that. One thing Burke did in Toronto is pick up centres who actually won draws - McClement and Stekel were big face-off guys who he acquired.

Its not like Burke sacrafices everything for fighters. In 2011-12, he sent Orr to the minors and they didn't have a guy over 100 PIMs on the team.

[GirlySports]

Burke should have never been fired from Toronto. It was done at the beginning of a shortened season. That was purely politics within MLSE.

[calgARI]

Feaster's philosophy changed 3-4 times during his time as GM. He did a horrible job and just went whatever way the wind was blowing.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by macrov

But look closer: Detroit and Pitsburgh are build like a Feaster team - 2-way players who are intellegent and skilled

Kinda tought to replicate those teams.

Pittsburgh fluked out and drafted 2 of the best players in the world in 2 consecutive drafts. When you have Crosby and Malkin you can fill in the rest of the team pretty easily and you don't even need great goaltending to win.

Detroit picked up 2 franchise players in the 6th and 7th rounds. Plus they had possibly the best all around defensemen in history to compliment them for a decade.

I think you are more likely to have a playoff team with big skilled players in general.

[stemit14]

Pretty much every team in the league wants to follow the boston, LA, St. Louis philosophy. If it was as easy as saying it, every team would be big, skilled, and play a 200 foot game.

For example, it's very easy to say "we'll draft the guy who is really big and plays a great 200 foot game rather than the skilled offensive forward" but it's really hard to turn down a chance to draft Sam Reinhart if he's available because everyone will say you're making a mistake going against the draft rankings. Sometimes it's risky moves that end up turning teams into contenders.

Look a LA... They are one of the best teams in the league but that only happened when they finally decided after years of rebuilding that it was time to move assets for the kind of players that they needed. It was a risk to trade away guys like Simmonds and Schenn who are actually good players and may get even better but moves like that gave them Richards and carter... who have made LA into the powerhouse that it is.

[Yoho]

I like that ownership probably won't interfere with Burke. I hope that was a stipulation of him accepting the job.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by calgARI

Feaster's philosophy changed 3-4 times during his time as GM. He did a horrible job.

Was it Feaster or more like him being a puppet with the ownership group dictating which direction they should go.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Dion

Was it Feaster or more like him being a puppet with the ownership group dictating which direction they should go.

It was a weak GM desperate to keep his last NHL job.

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by Dion

I hope the Flames made the right decision. Burke has been fired from a number of teams which raises some doubts in my mind. I have fears he might discard the rebuild and try the quicker route of adding vet players via trades and free agency.

Atleast he won the cup in Anaheim. Leafs was Burkes team when they got into playoffs, he drafted Sedins etc. He has made some questionable trades but I like that resume.

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by Dion

Was it Feaster or more like him being a puppet with the ownership group dictating which direction they should go.

It was Feaster. I'm not even talking about the whole rebuild idiocy. I'm referencing his wanting to become more skilled in wake of Sutter then changing back to needing toughness then being younger then post-apex, blablabla. That's all it ever was with him. No planning. No hockey intelligence. Just interviews and press conferences where he would say absolutely nothing of substance. One of the worst GM's I have ever seen. Made some good moves but there was never any plan at all.

[Ring of Fire]

The Flames have to get bigger and tougher if they want to compete in the Pacific Division any time soon.

Also Hartley seems to like a top 6/bottom 6 distinction with defined roles. If you look at his rosters in Colorado he clearly had a skilled top 6 and then some checkers and likes his enforcers as well.

[Erick Estrada]

Feaster's philosophy was whatever Ken King and Murray Edwards determined it was and I'm saying that in defense of Feaster in that he probably never really got a chance to run things exactly the way he would have liked. I believe that is no longer the case and things will be run Burke's way. I'll take Burke's philosophy over Edwards and King's.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Ring of Fire

The Flames have to get bigger and tougher if they want to compete in the Pacific Division any time soon.

Also Hartley seems to like a top 6/bottom 6 distinction with defined roles. If you look at his rosters in Colorado he clearly had a skilled top 6 and then some checkers and likes his enforcers as well.

I'm not 100% we need to worry what Hartley "seems to like" after this year.

[Roof-Daddy]

I was happy Burke came on board as what I thought would be a sounding board for Feaster (maybe keep Jay from dropping the ball on trades), bring some respectability to the Flames org, but at the same time would allow Feaster/Weisbrod to continue building their vision of a team. (As outlined by the OP)

Now that I see Burke is taking full control, and will likely be hiring a puppet shortly, I am quite frustrated.

I'm a die hard Flames fan though, and what's best for the Flames is all I care about so hopefully I'm dead wrong, Feaster/Weisbrod were off their rockers and Burke came in and saved this franchise from many more years of certain disaster.

[CaramonLS]

Pittsburgh is a very physical team.

I don't think they have a single regular player who is under 5'11 on their roster and they were one of the top hitting teams last year..

Just because they've got Crosby on their team doesn't mean they don't play a similar style to Burke's philosophy and somehow that reflects well on Feaster?