Flames assign Sven Baertschi to the Heat

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by HartAttack

Sven seems to be allergic to the puck right now - doesn't win board battles, doesn't ever control the puck, and always seems to get pushed off the puck.

The demotion to the AHL will allow him to regain some confidence. But yet, I don't think it's entirely a confidence issue. The guy needs time to bulk up. If this were NHL 14 video game, I'd be putting all my XP towards Balance, Strength, Puck Control and Defensive Awareness.

Sven has been just fine in his own zone. Yes, he needs to bulk up, but he's never going to be a big hulking hockey player.

He's a skilled player. Let's develop him into a skill player and put the xp in skating, shooting, passing, whatever. This is what he is.

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by saillias

I don't think Backlund needed any more AHL time than he got. Maybe expectations for him were just too high. He's become a good player. If he could get faceoffs to 50%, we could start calling him valuable.

Good point, maybe the expectations were to high, But valuable, come on. Because we have had so few prospect roll through cowtown in the last decade we often overrate the ones who do actually make the team. Brodie is valuable, Backlunds skill set is more than replaceable with someone who is hard to play against, not plays an entire game with an egg shell in his pocket. As Brian Burke once said "Anyone can paint a barn, it takes someone special to paint a masterpiece."

[saillias]

At his current production level, age, the competition he faces, and added with his lockout season production, yeah. If he added a 50% faceoff ability to his skillset, I would start calling him a valuable player. Not a franchise player, or core player, just valuable.

Back in 2008-09ish there was a poster with the handle Lunatik who compared his upside to Lombardi, and he got blasted for that. He was pretty accurate, IMO. Backlund never really displayed top tier offensive talent in junior leagues or Sweden. He is what he is. Late 20s first round draft pick, if he's a player you take it.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Sven has been just fine in his own zone. Yes, he needs to bulk up, but he's never going to be a big hulking hockey player.

He's a skilled player. Let's develop him into a skill player and put the xp in skating, shooting, passing, whatever. This is what he is.

This, Hartley is an idiot when it comes to pure skilled players, Look at Pat Kane for example, 42 points and only a +5 on the year yet he makes that team win a hell of a lot more than he causes losses. Chicago gives Kane linemates who play the 3 zones and let him work his magic.

Whats next, will he bench Gaudreau for not crashing and banging in the corners.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by T@T

This, Hartley is an idiot when it comes to pure skilled players, Look at Pat Kane for example, 42 points and only a +5 on the year yet he makes that team win a hell of a lot more than he causes losses. Chicago gives Kane linemates who play the 3 zones and let him work his magic.

Whats next, will he bench Gaudreau for not crashing and banging in the corners.

There's a lot more to playing in three zones than crashing and banging. It's about positional play, getting in lanes, supporting the puck, etc.

Haven't you been watching those World Cups and Olympics where Czech and Swedish teams with hardly any bangers completely stiffle a bigger Canadian team loaded with elite talent?

[Robo]

GeezSven isn't nearly as skilled offensively as patrick kane. The fact that people use him as a comparison just makes me shake my head at some posters on this board , if sven wants to stay in this league his offensive skills alone are not going to get it done.

[cannon7]

There's been games where Colborne outplayed Baertschi and there's been games where Baertschi has outplayed Colborne. IMO, Baertschi has been outplaying Colborne of late, he'd actually come off three strong games before he was sent down.

The point is that one of them is getting special treatment while the othe one is being made into a media pariah. One of them is the handpicked golden boy formerly drafted by the now interim GM and the other is publicly criticized by that same interim GM before the season has even started.

I'm not saying I dislike Colborne. I see potential there, albeit still very raw. My issue is that the treatment of these young players is not consistent and the interim GM lacks the humility to even hide his blatant bias.

I was OK with Burke in a hockey operations role, but I don't want that buffoon as GM.

I hope Baertschi goes to Abbottsford and lights it up, forcing Burke's hand. Or better yet, the new GM's hand -- whoever that mgiht be.

[hummdeedoo]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I hope Baertschi goes to Abbottsford and lights it up, forcing Burke's hand. Or better yet, the new GM's hand -- whoever that mgiht be.

I'm betting that's what Burke wants and expects to happen. Baertschi's stock will go up and that's when he'll move him out.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by hummdeedoo

I'm betting that's what Burke wants and expects to happen. Baertschi's stock will go up and that's when he'll move him out.

If Burke wants to trade Baertschi, he should have moved him before he took him to the cleaners in front of the media. His value right now is at an all time low.

With that said, I still expect him to be traded, and we'll be severely disappointed with the return.

[Rerun]

Sven's play this year..



Colborne's play this year..

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I hope Baertschi goes to Abbottsford and lights it up, forcing Burke's hand. Or better yet, the new GM's hand -- whoever that mgiht be.

I think everyone else hopes this is the outcome of his tenure in Abbottsford as well.

[Robo]

That actually sums it up perfectly

[Badgers Nose]

Totally like the Kadri situation.

Kadri is a stud now, and he says great things about Burke, so Burke did it right.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by cannon7

There's been games where Colborne outplayed Baertschi and there's been games where Baertschi has outplayed Colborne. IMO, Baertschi has been outplaying Colborne of late, he'd actually come off three strong games before he was sent down.

The point is that one of them is getting special treatment while the othe one is being made into a media pariah. One of them is the handpicked golden boy formerly drafted by the now interim GM and the other is publicly criticized by that same interim GM before the season has even started.

I'm not saying I dislike Colborne. I see potential there, albeit still very raw. My issue is that the treatment of these young players is not consistent and the interim GM lacks the humility to even hide his blatant bias.

I was OK with Burke in a hockey operations role, but I don't want that buffoon as GM.

I hope Baertschi goes to Abbottsford and lights it up, forcing Burke's hand. Or better yet, the new GM's hand -- whoever that mgiht be.

I think Colborne is in that awkward spot where he has to pass to go down isn't he? Like it or not that makes a difference.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Totally like the Kadri situation.

Kadri is a stud now, and he says great things about Burke, so Burke did it right.

Kadri is still a one-dimensional scorer. I'd go as far to say that Baertschi is a better two-way player than he is right now, he's just not as offensively mature.

[SeanCharles]

I know we are discussing topics here but everyone is an expert on this one so I'll give it a try.

Ill start by saying Sven is one of my favorite prospects. Might even be my number 1..

But he is 21 years old. He needs to get over that hump of becoming a consistent NHLer. Its the hardest part of the development process. He is European as well which usually means taking longer to develop, specifically physically. Most importantly he needs his confidence back. When playing with confidence I think this kid could be, and will be one day, a star!

Every prospect has a different development curve. Sven will be fine, his offensive game is special to watch when he is in top form. He needs to learn the nuances of the game. This includes mental aspects.

I think Sven has had confidence issues because he is so hard on himself. He needs to stop focusing on success so much that it drags him down when he fails. He is young and is expected to stumble every now and then. The key is he gets back up and approaches the challenge in front of him with the right attitude.

Getting sent down is a good idea. He has a chance to be a huge part of a winning and learning atmosphere. He will be a leader down there.

He should grow from this.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by cannon7

There's been games where Colborne outplayed Baertschi and there's been games where Baertschi has outplayed Colborne. IMO, Baertschi has been outplaying Colborne of late, he'd actually come off three strong games before he was sent down.

The point is that one of them is getting special treatment while the othe one is being made into a media pariah. One of them is the handpicked golden boy formerly drafted by the now interim GM and the other is publicly criticized by that same interim GM before the season has even started.

I'm not saying I dislike Colborne. I see potential there, albeit still very raw. My issue is that the treatment of these young players is not consistent and the interim GM lacks the humility to even hide his blatant bias.

I was OK with Burke in a hockey operations role, but I don't want that buffoon as GM.

I hope Baertschi goes to Abbottsford and lights it up, forcing Burke's hand. Or better yet, the new GM's hand -- whoever that mgiht be.

Colborne and Sven's development paths, plans, options (i.e. the Flames can't send Colborne down) and postion is different.

Comparing the two serves 0 purpose, as it's not relevant. Maybe the Flames would love to send Colborne down for all we know, and would love for him to be getting AHL minutes to enhance his development, but unfortunately can't because of how they acquired him and believe he has a role to play on this team in the future (rember, this is a rebuild, decisions are being made for the future).

Should the Flames then not do the "best" thing for Sven because they acquired Colborne and they have limited options on what they can do with him. This need for everything to be "fair" that some fans have is just so silly, and not real life. Real life isn't "fair". Sven and Colborne will have different paths to what will hopefully be two successful NHL careers. They will have different ups downs and bumps to cross. If Sven is sitting there complainnig about "fair" in relation to Colborne (not saying he is) and he lets that impact how well he takes advanatage of the challenge / opportunity that's been presented to him, that speaks volumes to his character and how likely it is that he will succeed. There are two ways for a player like Sven to handle what's happened to him............a winner handles it in a certain fashion. We will see what he does.

[Flaming Choy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Kadri is still a one-dimensional scorer. I'd go as far to say that Baertschi is a better two-way player than he is right now, he's just not as offensively mature.

Or physically mature. There's nothing wrong with taking your time with Sven, let him get stronger and more confident. Build chemistry with some of the other prospects. Some time away from the Flames/Hartley could be good and let him focus on playing more consistent.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If Burke wants to trade Baertschi, he should have moved him before he took him to the cleaners in front of the media. His value right now is at an all time low.

Yeah, because NHL scouts and GMs let their assessments of players be influenced by comments to the media.

If Hartley and Burke have identified weaknesses in Baertschi's game, you can be sure every other pro scout and GM in the league is aware of them.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Kadri is still a one-dimensional scorer. I'd go as far to say that Baertschi is a better two-way player than he is right now, he's just not as offensively mature.

Kadri is a pitbull out there. He's good away from the puck because he does whatever he has to to get the puck. Kadri is also harder to push off the puck.

Baertschi is not horrible defensively, and he has shown improvement in that area this year, but he is no where near Kadri's level.

When Baertschi first came up he scored some goals and got everyone excited. The goals he scored were because he was relentless on his forecheck. He needs to get that fire in him again, the fire that Kadri shows now. Baertschi also has to work on his all around game and get stronger, and get some confidence.

I get you're butt hurt over this decision but coming in and making assanine claims like Baertschi is a better 2 way player than Kadri does nothing to help your case.

Baertschi is skilled but young, and needs more development time. Get over it.