Calgary SSP Development Listing

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Muta

Suburbs and SFH's aren't the only way to live comfortably with space. Smart density is just efficient planning.

not the only way but by far the most economical. How much would each unit cost in the building you're proposing? Well over a million bucks a unit is way out of the range of most people. Not to mention what would the condo fees be like in a building like that? probably more per month then most peoples mortgage.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Dan02

not the only way but by far the most economical. How much would each unit cost in the building you're proposing? Well over a million bucks a unit is way out of the range of most people. Not to mention what would the condo fees be like in a building like that? probably more per month then most peoples mortgage.

That's why I said the economics of such a building are for a different discussion. There's many factors involved, including property values in your geographical location.

I was only speaking to the widely-perceived stereotype that density means you're crammed in condo-style.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Dan02

not the only way but by far the most economical. How much would each unit cost in the building you're proposing? Well over a million bucks a unit is way out of the range of most people. Not to mention what would the condo fees be like in a building like that? probably more per month then most peoples mortgage.

Well, the 3 bedroom units in Lido in Kensington start at 900k, according to the thread in the real estate forum. So your guess of around a million is about right. Not really affordable for the average family with 2 kids, I'm thinking.

[MarchHare]

I've mentioned this before, but I know two different families who were forced to move to the suburbs after having their second child because there aren't any affordable 3BR housing options in the inner-city. It seems like there's an assumption amongst housing developers that everyone with children wants to live in a SFH in the burbs, so all the inner-city condo units are built with only one or two bedrooms. Consequently, the relatively few family-friendly units with three bedrooms are in very high demand and thus can command ~$1M dollar prices. If there was a greater supply of 3BR units near the core, downtown living would be more affordable for families who don't want to live in the suburbs but currently have no other economical choice.

[Dan02]

See I guess I disagree with you here MarchHare, I'd suggest it's more likely true that 3 bedrooms aren't built as much because at the price point they would need to be at for the developers to maximize their returns there isn't a market for them.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Dan02

See I guess I disagree with you here MarchHare, I'd suggest it's more likely true that 3 bedrooms aren't built as much because at the price point they would need to be at for the developers to maximize their returns there isn't a market for them.

When 3-bedrooms sell at a higher price-per-square-foot than comparable 2-bedrooms, you'd be wrong. The developers might be maximizing their returns, but they're doing it through monopolistic (/oligopolisitic) pricing, whereas the markets for 2-bedrooms and 1-bedrooms are more competitive.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I've mentioned this before, but I know two different families who were forced to move to the suburbs after having their second child because there aren't any affordable 3BR housing options in the inner-city. It seems like there's an assumption amongst housing developers that everyone with children wants to live in a SFH in the burbs, so all the inner-city condo units are built with only one or two bedrooms. Consequently, the relatively few family-friendly units with three bedrooms are in very high demand and thus can command ~$1M dollar prices. If there was a greater supply of 3BR units near the core, downtown living would be more affordable for families who don't want to live in the suburbs but currently have no other economical choice.

Did any of your friends go to someone doing a development and ask if they'd combine 2 units for them to make a 3 bedroom? If they were willing to buy both units, I suspect a builder would do it. (Windsor Pilates mentioned he could do something like that when he was selling a building in the beltline, iirc)

If they didn't, then the complaints are the typical "I want something that isn't available" when the reason its not available is that people aren't willing to pay what it costs. A decent size 3 bedroom condo downtown would cost more than an average 3 bedroom detatched house in the suburbs.

[Madman]

Imperial Oil has sold its property at 500 6th Ave. S.W to Oxford Properties and Omers.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...768/story.html

[Bigtime]

Yup, who do you think tipped the Herald off?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Muta

That's why I said the economics of such a building are for a different discussion. There's many factors involved, including property values in your geographical location.

I was only speaking to the widely-perceived stereotype that density means you're crammed in condo-style.

Is it really a stereotype though when what you describe will never happen? Density does mean less space because of the economic factors. There's a reason why the building you describe doesn't exist. Builders will only build what they can sell to the average person, which, if you're talking about high rises, mean small condos. That's just the reality of it.

[EYE_Overstand]

I wish there were more central located row houses similar to erlton that come on the market.... I know about the barricks, but that part of the city isn't really appealing to me.

I'm sure cost of land plays a large factor into this

[surferguy]

Originally Posted by EYE_Overstand

I wish there were more central located row houses similar to erlton that come on the market.... I know about the barricks, but that part of the city isn't really appealing to me.

I'm sure cost of land plays a large factor into this

I think a proposal is up for review in either Hillhurst or Sunnyside for a large group of brownstones.

Cannot remember the name but somebody will chime in with some details.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by surferguy

I think a proposal is up for review in either Hillhurst or Sunnyside for a large group of brownstones.

Cannot remember the name but somebody will chime in with some details.

You are correct, The Dobbin Group has a proposal for the 13 SFH homes directly west of the Kensington Riverside Inn.

http://thedobbingroup.com/wordpress/?p=463

It would replace those homes with a Brownstones project (4 storey height).

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Not to defend the article, but just to reply to you.

On many occasions people have commented publically and on this forum how Calgary takes up more land than NYC. Ive never been to NYC before but from the pictures it doesnt seem to be alot of single family homes there.

I think if you ask them off the record they would like to see nothing but high density homes from crowchild to glenmore to john laurie to deerfoot. Of course they would never say that on the record.

I would like to know what kind of city that exists today they would want to copy. To look at NYC financials it doesnt appear that they are in any better financial position than Calgary. So to say that Calgary is unsustainable because of sprawling suburbia is to imply that there is a city out there that is sustainable, and if NYC isnt one then I wonder what city out there they are comparing Calgary against.

I don't think they literally want to turn Calgary into NYC. It's just used as an extreme example to illustrate Calgary's relatively low density (1/10 of NYC). Imagine the difference of just doubling Calgary's density

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I've mentioned this before, but I know two different families who were forced to move to the suburbs after having their second child because there aren't any affordable 3BR housing options in the inner-city. It seems like there's an assumption amongst housing developers that everyone with children wants to live in a SFH in the burbs, so all the inner-city condo units are built with only one or two bedrooms. Consequently, the relatively few family-friendly units with three bedrooms are in very high demand and thus can command ~$1M dollar prices. If there was a greater supply of 3BR units near the core, downtown living would be more affordable for families who don't want to live in the suburbs but currently have no other economical choice.

If Joe Average wants to move to the innercity with a family into something with three rooms in the $300K-600K range (about the price of your usual suburban house) - it can absolutely be found in the inner city.

The trade off will be age and location - no I'm not talking about tear down shacks. Lido's 900K 3 bed price for an apartment is largely due to the "new and shiny" premium anyone pays for a never lived in property. Go further into Hillhurst/Sunnyside and find any number of townhouses in the $400K-500K range.

Hell, there was an absolute steal 8 blocks away from Lido this summer - a 25 ft 2000sq ft detached infill (5 yrs old) on a great street with granite and all the gewgaws that people love for $680K. I've seen plenty of good detached houses in the West Hillhurst / Parkdale area go for $500-650K - your normal price for a house in the burbs. The question is whether Joe Average wants to trade off a slightly smaller yard and perhaps 5-7 years of age on the house vs a new and shiny house "just the way I wanted it".

[SebC]

Tall is good! http://gizmodo.com/tall-is-good-how-...our-1478168830

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Huge proposed development could quadruple Chestermere’s population.

[kevman]

Interesting....

I wonder if Calgary should have made a push to annex those lands first? When that development is built up it will be closer to Downtown Calgary than Airdrie, Okotoks and Cochrane. Promoting inner-city development by reducing greenfield SFH construction doesn't do you a lot of good when it gets built up anyway and you lose that tax base.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

Huge proposed development could quadruple Chestermere’s population.

If it was "East Forest Lawn" or "East Penbrooke Meadows" you'd never be able to sell the houses. As "West Chestermere", people will identify the houses with the Lake, not the other neighbourhoods which are essentially just as close to this area.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

I live in a new development in Applewood, I like it. The best part: I can use Stoney Trail to circumnavigate the depressed areas of the SE.