Should the City reconsider the snow removal policy? [Split from weather]

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by kevman

http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/p..._schema=PORTAL

Montreal's snow removal is "so much better" because they budget approximately 5 times as much as Calgary does to clear snow.

So the question is, would you pay $120 million extra each year to ensure weeks like last week don't happen? That's $100/person or an increase of 15% on property taxes assuming the province doesn't chip in. To put Montreal's $150 million into perspective Calgary collects $400 million from residential property taxes and $400 million from commercial property taxes. (link)

$120 million/year is an LRT leg every decade or 5 Peace bridges/year.

Is your 2 hours of extra commuting 4 days a year before the chinook rolls in really worth that much? There are a lot of better things to spend money on that would benefit the city before we waste a bunch of money on moving snow around.

I know there is a middle ground and this isn't directed at anyone in particular but I'm getting tired of hearing about how great Montreal's snow clearing is...

The population of the area serviced by Montreal's snow removal is roughly three times the size of Calgary and Montreal gets, on average, 100 cm more snow per year than Calgary. The point being, you cannot simply compare the two budgets.

[FlamesKickAss]

Originally Posted by Sliver

If you had a set of Blizzaks on your Corolla, there isn't a single street in all of Calgary that would have stopped your car this week or last.

I have snow tires on my work's ford focus and I can't out front of my house. So i don't think this is entierly true.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Sliver

If you had a set of Blizzaks on your Corolla, there isn't a single street in all of Calgary that would have stopped your car this week or last.

Not even close to being true.

[ken0042]

While I am a proponent of winter tires, and I do believe there is merit in making them manditory; I don't believe they should be made manditory instead of doing a proper job of making the roads driveable.

I have nice new beefy winter tires on my SUV, and I was pulling people out of snowbanks last Tuesday. However just yesterday on a side street I happened to fall into a rut, and for a moment looked like I was going to sideswipe a parked car. Fortunately I was able to recover in time. However I still recall talking to an older lady who said she could no longer drive in winter, as the previous winter something similar happened to her and the force was enough to cause a serious sprain to her wrist.

I strongly believe that it is up to the city to maintain the roads within the city; and keep them in reasonable condition. Side streets with 6-12 inch ruts for 4 months of the year does not seem acceptable.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesKickAss

I have snow tires on my work's ford focus and I can't out front of my house. So i don't think this is entierly true.

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Not even close to being true.

Objectively it is.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Sliver

If you had a set of Blizzaks on your Corolla, there isn't a single street in all of Calgary that would have stopped your car this week or last.

This is so far from the truth, it's hilarious. You clearly did not see the condition of some of the streets in the NE. At least a dozen cars were snowed in at the bottom of my street. The few that I helped dig out had winters.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Sliver

If you had a set of Blizzaks on your Corolla, there isn't a single street in all of Calgary that would have stopped your car this week or last.

Bologna. There were trucks with 4x4 who couldn't get through some roads in the NE.

[mykalberta]

They would if the people in Calgary didnt think the insignificant rate we pay in property taxes was already to high.

So we wont be getting it anytime soon and the same people who complain about the snow removal policy will also complain why are taxes are so high.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Not even close to being true.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Objectively it is.

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Bologna. There were trucks with 4x4 who couldn't get through some roads in the NE.

Umm... I think it might have been a joke... Mainly in response to this:

Originally Posted by habernac

how effective are snow tires on smaller Corolla, Sentra type cars if they still have to drive through deep snow?

[kevman]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

The population of the area serviced by Montreal's snow removal is roughly three times the size of Calgary and Montreal gets, on average, 100 cm more snow per year than Calgary. The point being, you cannot simply compare the two budgets.

Sure, but a lot of people do.

And its' the size of the city/road network that requires clearing and not the population that determines the cost to the city. Per capita it may be cheaper in Montreal to clear their roads to the level they do but to achieve similar results in Calgary will cost substantially more than it already does.

Originally Posted by mykalberta

They would if the people in Calgary didnt think the insignificant rate we pay in property taxes was already to high.

So we wont be getting it anytime soon and the same people who complain about the snow removal policy will also complain why are taxes are so high.

Exactly. If it was as easy as spending $1 million extra you could get a lot of people on board. Going from a few priority 1 and 2 routes to clearing entire communities with hauled away snow removal adds a ton of cost.

Even if it's only $10 million a year would you rather clear the snow to improve traffic 4 days a year or put that money toward infrastructure funding that improves commuting 365 days a year?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

Umm... I think it might have been a joke... Mainly in response to this:

History leads me to believe it wasn't

[Sliver]

It wasn't a joke.

I will admit I didn't see the roads in the NE; however, not all winter tires are created equal, which is why I specified Blizzak as they're one of the better brands.

My old '87 Celica GTS with Blizzaks on the front only could literally plow snow. I'd bet money I could get through any road in Calgary without getting stuck in a Corolla with Blizzaks.

[Northendzone]

based on what i saw on the enws, it seemingly took a little over a week to get those two or three subdivisions in teh NE cleared - that is embarassing.....

[Ace]

I live on a cul-de-sac, that has an open few hundred meters to the north, this causes huge drifts, but despite informing the city they still haven't come to do a pass, this has resulted in city recycling skipping my bin, presumably because they wanted to avoid the drifts. So because i'm on a cul-de-sac I am the lowest priority road in the city, and this takes out the discretionary aspect of a situation such as this.

Like others my vehicles don't get stuck so this doesn't affect me (other than recycling collection being skipped), but I do feel for my neighbors who I have dug out when they get stuck, and who organized a team to dig a decent path in the road by hand.

I wish the city would commit to clearing low priority routes eventually. Weather patterns are changing and the city should adjust.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It wasn't a joke.

I will admit I didn't see the roads in the NE; however, not all winter tires are created equal, which is why I specified Blizzak as they're one of the better brands.

My old '87 Celica GTS with Blizzaks on the front only could literally plow snow. I'd bet money I could get through any road in Calgary without getting stuck in a Corolla with Blizzaks.

The quality of the snow tires is a non factor. Small, light, 2wd cars aren't going to push through 2-3 feet of snow, or more in some places. A corrolla wouldn't make it through that with bulldozer tracks on.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

The quality of the snow tires is a non factor. Small, light, 2wd cars aren't going to push through 2-3 feet of snow, or more in some places. A corrolla wouldn't make it through that with bulldozer tracks on.

It would if it had Blizzak® treads on!


Add this to the list of threads where everyone assumes Sliver is joking.......and is not

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by kevman

...Exactly. If it was as easy as spending $1 million extra you could get a lot of people on board. Going from a few priority 1 and 2 routes to clearing entire communities with hauled away snow removal adds a ton of cost.

Even if it's only $10 million a year would you rather clear the snow to improve traffic 4 days a year or put that money toward infrastructure funding that improves commuting 365 days a year?

For a comparison - look at Winnipeg snow removal budget and compare that to Calgary. Then double the pegs cost to cover the size of Calgary and you would get what kind of increase this city would need. Doubling the current budget would be a low estimate IMO.

I think they way they are going about it is a good first step. Pay private contractors since its a very seasonal and hit and miss sort of thing. Yes you would pay more per km paved but you also dont pay anything when the Chinook arrives and the capital cost of equipment isnt being wasted in the summer.

I wonder what NYC pays each year for snow removal given its got less land area to cover than Calgary?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It wasn't a joke.

I will admit I didn't see the roads in the NE; however, not all winter tires are created equal, which is why I specified Blizzak as they're one of the better brands.

My old '87 Celica GTS with Blizzaks on the front only could literally plow snow. I'd bet money I could get through any road in Calgary without getting stuck in a Corolla with Blizzaks.

The issue one these days was ground clearance, people getting high centred, that sort of thing. Only a problem one or two days every 2 or 3 winters, but still a problem this time for a lot of people

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by btimbit

The issue one these days was ground clearance, people getting high centred, that sort of thing. Only a problem one or two days every 2 or 3 winters, but still a problem this time for a lot of people

Yeah, fair enough. If you lose momentum, that could lead to issues. Good winter tires are going to minimize the problems, but driver skill also plays a role.

[Bmuzyka]

Originally Posted by btimbit

The issue one these days was ground clearance, people getting high centred, that sort of thing. Only a problem one or two days every 2 or 3 winters, but still a problem this time for a lot of people

And a huge problem with that, is once this snow thaws and re-freezes a few times, that ridge is nothing more than a huge chunk of ice, so if you do High-Center, you are possibly going to do some real damage to your undercarriage if you don't have a Truck with Skid Plates