High Speed Rail - Calgary/Edmonton

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

1. Calgary's CTrain system has been built in stages over decades, a bullet train doesn't make sense to only be built to Red Deer initially. It has to be built all at once, present value that cash and it's a collossal waste of money.

2."out of the ordinary" expenditures are a good way to end up in the poor house. Until people who blow out thier ACL don't have to wait forever to get an MRI and treatment then there are more important things in the here and now to put money towards.

3. Isn't this 'out of the ordinary' type arguement just come from people who just want something cool built without much understanding to the economics behind it? There's a reason why it's out of the ordinary: It's fataing stupid. That kind of planning is better left to the Montreal government that seems to have endless white elephant 'out of the ordinary' infrastructure items built all the while vital infrastructure lies crumbling in a heap of ruins.

So... you're not in favour of HSR? I'm confused...

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by fredr123

So... you're not in favour of HSR? I'm confused...

At some point it might make sense. But I feel that that point is so far off that it's not practical to build it now. Sure set the land and right of way aside for the day there's 10 million people in between Sturgeon County and High River. But until then it's a waste of cash. These trains are even a drain on the treasury in places that they make sense like densely populated Europe. No white elephants that I have to pay for please!!!

[RW99]

A little 4 year bump. Looks like they are starting to talk about high speed rail again:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/po...450/story.html

After years of discussion, a legislature committee is investigating whether the dream of a high-speed rail link between Calgary and Edmonton can get back on track.

Moe Amery, the Progressive Conservative MLA who chairs the standing committee on Alberta’s economic future, said public interest and provincial need is driving politicians to put the long-discussed issue back on the agenda.

And to add something new to the thread, my choice is Hyperloop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop

[The Yen Man]

The fact of the matter is, neither Calgary nor Edmonton are dense enough to make this thing worthwhile. Unless all your business is conducted in the downtown core, you're still most likely going to need to rent a car. And really, are there really that many people that need to commute to and from each city every day? I can't imagine there would be. With the advent of teleconferencing, I'd argue there's even less need to need this now than before.

[octothorp]

Calgarians: "Monahan! Monahan! Monahan! Monahan!"
Politician in Edmonton: "What's that noise?"
Other politician: "Hmm, I dunno, something about high speed rail?"
First politician: "Okay, tell them we'll do another study on it."

[btimbit]

I really only see this working if transit was better in both cities. Like others have said, you're most likely going to need a car once you get there anyway

[GaiJin]

Way Cheaper.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

Way Cheaper.

For the curious like me.

German-Made No Speed Limit Autobahn Sign

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/...tobahn+sign.do

[Table 5]

For that you need autobahn-quality roads...and more importantly, autobahn-quality drivers.

[GGG]

The Calgary end might work as most business is conducted downtown. But the edmonton end you would be more likely to need to rent a car as all of the refinery and oil based industry is on the East of the city.

I think spending the money local transit gives you far better return on investment. Burrying downtown calgary probably saves more total minutes of commuting for people then this train ever would. As others have said years ago, set aside the right of way to make it happen at some point in the future.

[Bigtime]

I do believe the right of way has been purchased and set aside, including space in downtown Calgary for the station (near 4th street SE along the CPR lines if I am not mistaken).

Edit: Details on the downtown station location, from Chris Ollenberger who was the first head of the CMLC that is developing the East Village:

"It's at 5 street and 9th ave SE in East Village. Loading and access for travellers off 9th ave. Links to SELRT at same station as well. That's why 5th street is different pavement pattern for peds in East Village."

[Table 5]

If anything, I would actually be more interested in a Calgary-Camore-Banff route, than Calgary-Red Deer-Edmonton. That would be much more of an experience, especially for tourists.

But personally, I'd rather spend the money on local transit. How many train lines would those Billions (and it would be billions) of dollars get you in both Calgary and Edmonton? I'd imagine you'd be able to get at least 1 for each city, if not 2.

I also feel like the Trans-Canada in this country is in need of a serious upgrade. Every tiny country in Europe has freeways that are 10x better than ours in terms of quality. Ours feel like a third-world back alley, especially when you go east of Calgary. I know that it's an issue of scale, but every province should ensure that their portion of the road has 4 lane separated highway the whole way.

[ranchlandsselling]

If it's being built they should do Calgary - FortMac all in one go.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Table 5

If anything, I would actually be more interested in a Calgary-Camore-Banff route, than Calgary-Red Deer-Edmonton. That would be much more of an experience, especially for tourists.

I'd actually be really interested in taking the train, not even HSR, to Banff.

In regards to the line to Edmonton, any money spent on that would be better spent on local rail systems in order to get them to a point where they would allow HSR to be practical. Let's put the horse before the cart.

[darklord700]

Why would anybody spend money to build a train line to Edmonton? Do we really have this much people traffic between the two cities?

Driving there takes 2 1/2 - 3 hours. By train, you'll need to arrive half an hour early, for example, the train ride is about a hour, and exit the station. All together takes about at least 1 1/2 hour. So you shave 1 to 1 1/2 hour depending on your situation. And once you get to Edmonton or Calgary, unless you solely conduct your business in the downtown cores, you'll need another car anyway.

All these plus the cost of 2 train tickets, parking at the train stations, rental car and so on makes the time saving very costly for the riders.

Remember you are competing with the cost of driving with the gas money not more than $100 both ways. A car can carry four people, so the high speed train will almost only make sense to solo traveller doing business in both downtown cores.

This seems like a good way to waste millions on the consultation but at least whoever get's the consulting contract will be happy.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

For that you need autobahn-quality roads...and more importantly, autobahn-quality drivers.

Has Calgary been on this show yet.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Has Calgary been on this show yet.

Great show, watched every episode of it. However, I would argue the drivers on that show are far superior to the average drivers of Calgary. The systems and roads in those cities suck so the drivers have to adapt.

Put an average Calgarian driver in those cities and see what happen. Our drivers here can't even avoid hitting the C train.

[Bigtime]

An interesting statistic on population density from Chris Turner in regards to HSR:

"Rough est. of #yyc-#yeg corridor's population density: 83 per sq km* / Spain: 92 per sq km. Spain has Europe's most extensive HSR network."

"(* in last tweet: my back-of-envelope calculation used a corridor 75km wide by 400 km long, with est. population of 2.5m)"

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

An interesting statistic on population density from Chris Turner in regards to HSR:

"Rough est. of #yyc-#yeg corridor's population density: 83 per sq km* / Spain: 92 per sq km. Spain has Europe's most extensive HSR network."

"(* in last tweet: my back-of-envelope calculation used a corridor 75km wide by 400 km long, with est. population of 2.5m)"

What's the population density along Spain's HSR corridors?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

An interesting statistic on population density from Chris Turner in regards to HSR:

"Rough est. of #yyc-#yeg corridor's population density: 83 per sq km* / Spain: 92 per sq km. Spain has Europe's most extensive HSR network."

"(* in last tweet: my back-of-envelope calculation used a corridor 75km wide by 400 km long, with est. population of 2.5m)"

Not apples to apples. If we're using all of spain, including the less dense parts without HSR, then we should use all of Alberta as well.

And Alberta in total has a population density of ~5.6 people per sq km.