Shawn Thornton cheapshot on B. Orpik - gets 15 games

[zamler]

I think that's fair.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by zamler

Then why go after Orpik specifically?

Because "Lunk Head"?

[Bertuzzied]

That is fair since Marchand played the next night. But the NHL really has to start suspending more if the player is out for a longer period of time. Wake up NHL. Wake the eff up!

[pylon]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Neal just got handed five games. Like it!

Should've been at least 10.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by pylon

Should've been at least 10.

Thanked for your avatar and CP role.

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by pylon

Should've been at least 10.

Yes. In an ideal fantasy world where the NHL cares more about intent to injure than the unforeseen results of freak plays (not referring to Thornton).

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

That is fair since Marchand played the next night. But the NHL really has to start suspending more if the player is out for a longer period of time. Wake up NHL. Wake the eff up!

Quite the opposite IMO. Injuries don't happen all that often due to dirty play. The reason the NHL can't get a handle on dirty play is precisely because the injury is factored into things and far too much weight is given to it. Serious suspensions simply don't happen unless a serious injury results. They need to start punishing the act itself regardless of outcome. All of a sudden a guy delivering a cheap shot actually has to care because if he does so he's sitting for several games and losing that money.

By the same token the players and ex-players need to stop the "it wouldn't happen if he had dropped the gloves" self policing BS. The Neal knee was likely just that. If that wasn't Marchand I reall do doubt that Neal goes out of his way to knee the guy in the head. But it was a dirty player and it happened. Does anyone think Marchand cares about it? He doesn't. Do you think he changes his game because of it? Of course not. Why is that? because injury rarely occurs on dirty plays so he'll continue to take the risk. Self-policing doesn't do anything. Players really don't care what some goon on the other bench might think or do.

The ONLY thing that has shown to be somewhat effective is to threaten the livelihood via the bank account. It's why Marchand did clean up his game some. Why Cooke did clean up his game. They were having so many conversations with the NHL that it started to dawn on them that they weren't going to be in the league if they didn't change. It was probably also annoying teammates and causing issue in the room. Heck Cooke was told exactly that by Pens ownership.


Anyways...a good suspension for Neal. It sets a baseline for him that he will have to keep things clean for quite some time. In an ideal world where the NHL actually cared about dirty play and not mass media TV clips it would have been more.

Be interesting to see the Thornton suspension which should be bigger given the way the NHL operates. It was a sucker slew foot followed by sucker punches that led to injury. Multiple infractions really and ones that are easily argued to be premeditated given the challenge he made to Orpik earlier.

Also want to point out that Orpik showed the entire league how it is more than possible to deliver a devastating hit and avoid the head. It shouldn't be a surprise given the head is only about a third of the body width...not hard to target a guys shoulder.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by zamler

One of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. Orpik was attacked from behind and knocked out cold and now can't play due to a concussion. The act was about as reckless as it gets, especially considering it happened long after a clean hit (yes it was clean according to the rules). And you say the intent was not to "seriously injure" so what was it? Just hurt him moderately? How can he be so precise? The answer is he can't.

And honestly it doesn't make a lick of difference what Thornton was "trying" to do that is no excuse, it was a cowardly and gutless act that has no place in hockey.

BTW, for anyone that says Thornton was simply sticking up for his teammates and that what he did was not so bad. Thornton himself disagrees.

Might be better if you didn't cherry pick my post. Half of what you go on about it addressed in the second half of my post you conveniently decided to leave out. Makes you look like a jack ass.

[Resolute 14]

Five games is more than I was expecting, but less than he deserved.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by strombad

The aftermath aside, that hit Orpik laid out was pretty clearly interference. The puck isn't even heading to Ericsson, he's reaching out, it just BARELY bounces off his stick, and he gets laid out.

Then that would not be interference, or is there a level of how much he has to have touched the puck before he's allowed to be hit?

[timbit]

Interference is a pretty cut and dried penalty.

He touched the puck, hence no interference call.

Hard and clean body check, IMO.

[Flash Walken]

Gotta have your head up when Orpik is on the ice.

[Beatle17]

Neal suspension wasn't near enough. This is one of the dirtiest cheap shots I have ever seen in hockey.

Also a question for everyone that thinks, or assumes that Opriks original hit was clean. Do you think that every player who is close to the puck is fair game for predatory hits (as an example, the puck is cleared around the boards and a player is waiting), does the defenceman have a right to step up and crush him because the puck is coming to him?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Do you think that every player who is close to the puck is fair game for predatory hits (as an example, the puck is cleared around the boards and a player is waiting), does the defenceman have a right to step up and crush him because the puck is coming to him?

Not unless he has touched the puck before the moment of contact.

It's part of the game though, "Do I take the hit to get the puck out?"

Have to have awareness out there, Orpik is not the first guy to blow someone up with a clean body check as they wait for a pass to come around the boards.

It's not just about the hit, it's about retaining possession in the offensive zone.

That pinching defender is a strong part of Pittsburgh's system, but the result is largely dependent on the guy pinching. Letang or Martin probably don't blow you up, Orpik definitely does.

Eriksson needs more communication from his teammates on that play, but more importantly, has to wait until he's in possession before taking off if he doesn't want to eat a shoulder pad.

[Leondros]

It was established he touched the puck, making him elgible to be checked - a player waiting for a puck before touching it does not result in possesion thus this precludes the player from meeting the requirements to make him elgible to be checked.

[killer_carlson]

Neal at 5 games is about as much as a star player is going to get. It sucks that he has been suspended 2 previous times, but $125,000+ is a hell of a punishment.

Personally I'd like to have seen it more, but I was afraid that the NHL powers would have reduced it to like 2 or 3.

[Kaine]

Neal getting 5 games is an absolute joke. That is about as blatant an intent to injure as you will find. Just shows the league is still riddled with double standards and cares more about the optics of the injury rather than getting that crap out of the game.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Not unless he has touched the puck before the moment of contact.

It's part of the game though, "Do I take the hit to get the puck out?"

Have to have awareness out there, Orpik is not the first guy to blow someone up with a clean body check as they wait for a pass to come around the boards.

It's not just about the hit, it's about retaining possession in the offensive zone.

That pinching defender is a strong part of Pittsburgh's system, but the result is largely dependent on the guy pinching. Letang or Martin probably don't blow you up, Orpik definitely does.

Eriksson needs more communication from his teammates on that play, but more importantly, has to wait until he's in possession before taking off if he doesn't want to eat a shoulder pad.

I know why the hit is made, and if it was about getting possession in the offensive zone why didn't he make a play on the puck. I just want to know if people think it is ok to hit someone that doesn't have the puck? Ericsson didn't have the puck and didn't touch it, he was close but neither occurred. I don't really have an issue with the hit but I have an issue with the crappy reffing in hockey today. In my opinion it should have been an interference call but by calling nothing, basically ignoring the cheap shot later by Neal it led to an escalation in the frustration for Thornton, which caused him to go full meathead.

Now admitting Thornton was wrong and suspending him for more games than Neal is just going to escalate it to another level (think Claude Lemieux on Kris Draper). Nothing will occur this year as they don't play again but I still have a gut feeling that some meathead on the Bruins will go after Crosby when he is in a vulnerable position.

I can see the day when someone else hits a player like Orpik hit Ericsson and gets suspended because he concussed a "star" player. The player that gets suspended will then turn around and sue the league using the Orpik scenario as a defense.

[pylon]

This Neal suspension is an absolute joke, and should be the basis for appealing pretty much every suspension going forward.

"Oh, 7 games for a blindside hit on a player who has puck possession? I don't think so chief. I recall an incident where a player was splayed out on the ice in the most vulnerable position possible without the puck being intentionally kneed in the head by a rock hard shin pad going 30 KM/Hr."

"Yeah but he is a star player, you are a fourth line utility winger."

"Silly me, forgot about that part of NHL discipline."

They should just write in two tiered suspension rules, because it is blatantly obvious it is a two tiered system. If Neal gets 5, Thornton should get 3. Neal's was the dirtier play.

[devo22]

that suspension video is a joke. Shanahan even highlights that Neal turns his leg in an attempt to hit Marchand, so why not make it a personal hearing if you suspect something dirty like that? Also, I'm not familiar with the exact CBA wording, but: how in the world can a guy who has been suspended twice and fined once not be considered a repeat offender? Also, they put way too much emphasis on injuries when handing out suspensions.

at least they gave him the longest suspension they could after settling for a phone hearing. Still not enough punishment, if you ask me. Should have been 10 games, really.