So, here would be my biggest problem with the Orpik hit.
When did "Keep your head up", turn into "Keep your head up, or I'm going to put you in the hospital and/or possibly end your career and/or permanently degrade your quality of life"???
Even if the hit was "clean", when did NHLers lose enough respect for each other that they're out there trying to concuss opponents? It's not even something specific to Orpik as there are a ton of hits every night in the NHL that fall into this category.
I dunno. I just remember a guy like Ray Bourque playing 20+ years as a devastating body checker, and I don't ever remember him sending anyone to the hospital.
Orpik doesn't try and put him in the hospital; he stands his ground on the play. He's not striding, his arms are down, he's not contorting his body to make sure he inflicts the most damage. Eriksson ran into a wall. It's a violent game.
Neal and Thornton did things that were completely uncalled for. Orpik played the game the way everyone wants it to be played.
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Sean Avery is pleased with what Thornton did. https://twitter.com/imseanavery Just saw the chicken **** moves by Orpik and Neal...maybe lying on the ice knocked out will make u think twice....#16
When did "Keep your head up", turn into "Keep your head up, or I'm going to put you in the hospital and/or possibly end your career and/or permanently degrade your quality of life"???
Players are getting bigger and faster. Even if they weren't bigger, having faster players collide on the ice will result in bigger hits and sometimes injuries.
I'm not a fan of seeing players intentionally trying to knock an opponent into next week, but I do love seeing clean, hard hits. The Orpik hit was a clean, hard hit. Didn't look like he was trying to destroy him, just knock him on his arse and let his team gain possession of the puck.
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Neal will get 5 or less............I'm very, very interested to see how Shanahan spins the short suspension in his video.
Sad to see the NHL take such a soft stance on a dirty play like that.
That's easy. No injury. Rightly or wrongly, the NHL does consider injury - or lack thereof - in the outcome. If Marchand doesn't come back in that game, or goes off on a stretcher, Neal would be getting an in-person hearing as well.
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That's easy. No injury. Rightly or wrongly, the NHL does consider injury - or lack thereof - in the outcome. If Marchand doesn't come back in that game, or goes off on a stretcher, Neal would be getting an in-person hearing as well.
Agreed, and it's a huge flaw in some of the rulings we see. Injuries should play a part in the suspensions given out, but they shouldn't be a determining factor.
Intent should play just as big, if not bigger, of a factor than injuries do. He obviously intended to knee a player down on the ice in the head. You gotta make him sit for a while.
^This is exactly why we're going to start seeing more faking. Imagine if that game was in late April with a playoff meeting in a week? Someone has to say to March and to sit tight and hit the showers to try to make sure Neal is out. To me, that is just logical. Its horrible for the game and its integrity, but honestly why wouldn't you?
There was a 15 yard penalty and that's the end of it. Does Ryan White have to stand up and fight now? In hockey an outright brawl would have broken out. In the Patriots game today Gronk got his knee blown up. Should that defender need to stand up and fight?
In a sport where there is contact, there will be big hits and injuries. Why is it in hockey, they can't seem to handle these big hits and fights have to occur? Why does Orpik have to fight? If the hit is dirty, the league will deal with it. If there are enough big suspensions, players will stop doing it.
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I hate that whether or not there is an injury is a major determining factor in the punishment. It let's the idiots off with a slap on the wrist a lot of the time and provides an incentive for players to fake being hurt. I'm not saying players are faking a lot but there is incentive. Stupid policy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler
Sean Avery is pleased with what Thornton did. https://twitter.com/imseanavery Just saw the chicken **** moves by Orpik and Neal...maybe lying on the ice knocked out will make u think twice....#16
This coming from the d-bag that no team in the league will touch with a 10' pole. Even the AHL doesn't want him. Surprised he didn't say anything about Orpik's wife.
I hate that whether or not there is an injury is a major determining factor in the punishment. It let's the idiots off with a slap on the wrist a lot of the time and provides an incentive for players to fake being hurt. I'm not saying players are faking a lot but there is incentive. Stupid policy.
To some extent, I agree, but that's how it works in the real world too. Just look at the average prison sentence for attempted murder and see how it compares to the average sentence for murder.
So, here would be my biggest problem with the Orpik hit.
When did "Keep your head up", turn into "Keep your head up, or I'm going to put you in the hospital and/or possibly end your career and/or permanently degrade your quality of life"???
Even if the hit was "clean", when did NHLers lose enough respect for each other that they're out there trying to concuss opponents? It's not even something specific to Orpik as there are a ton of hits every night in the NHL that fall into this category.
I dunno. I just remember a guy like Ray Bourque playing 20+ years as a devastating body checker, and I don't ever remember him sending anyone to the hospital.
Scott Stevens, Wendel Clark, Eric Lindros, Rob Blake and Chris Pronger say hello.
Hockey has been a physical game since day 1, the issue at hand is that the new generation is being groomed to play the high speed, high scoring game, especially the europeans, where they are paying more attention to the puck, than their surroundings. The Orpik hit is a clear case of that, Ericsson looks from right to left, keeping his eye solely on the puck, rather than even for a split second looking up to see if he was in the clear. All the debate about taking big hits and fighting out of hockey, is giving the skill players the idea that they don't have to worry about being hit, in a contact sport. it's ridiculous. I love the physical game, seeing a guy get hit clean, in open ice is absolutely one of the most exciting plays in the game.
It's like driving, you never go out planning to get in a serious collision, but you are aware that it happens, so if you're a good driver, you pay attention, and avoid them. If you're not paying attention, you're likely to get hit.
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Nothing can justify what Thornton did but I do think that the Orpik hit was a penalty. Ericsson never touched the puck and was in a vulnerable position. That should be a penalty for interference for sure and possible for a head shot.
Sean Avery is pleased with what Thornton did. https://twitter.com/imseanavery Just saw the chicken **** moves by Orpik and Neal...maybe lying on the ice knocked out will make u think twice....#16
Nothing can justify what Thornton did but I do think that the Orpik hit was a penalty. Ericsson never touched the puck and was in a vulnerable position. That should be a penalty for interference for sure and possible for a head shot.
There was nothing wrong with the hit. It was a crushing hit that was timed perfectly to destroy Ericsson. Hindsight for Thornthon, bet sitting in the penalty box for 17 minutes (Instigator, fighting major, 10 min misconduct) getting paid would have been a better option than sitting in the press box not making money for 15-20 games.
Re: fighting after a clean hit. I don't understand why it seems like this is something new. If you crushed someone 20 years ago causing them to leave the game I can guarantee there would have been fists thrown...
There was nothing wrong with the hit. It was a crushing hit that was timed perfectly to destroy Ericsson. Hindsight for Thornthon, bet sitting in the penalty box for 17 minutes (Instigator, fighting major, 10 min misconduct) getting paid would have been a better option than sitting in the press box not making money for 15-20 games.
Re: fighting after a clean hit. I don't understand why it seems like this is something new. If you crushed someone 20 years ago causing them to leave the game I can guarantee there would have been fists thrown...
I agree the hit is clean but only because Eriksson touched the puck. If he hadn't contorted his body like that to touch the puck that was way behind him he wouldn't have been in a position like that to get smoked.
Orpik was going to hit him either way and it could very well have been an penalty if Eriksson didn't reach back for the puck.
i thought the Eriksson hit was more or less fine (we loved when sarich dished out the same exact hit).
The neal hit was dumb and he should sit a few games.
everyone understands thornton's role and what he was trying to do, but if the other player isn't willing to engage, you gotta sit back and take a number and wait for your opportunity. Everyone talks about a hockey code, and it gets more and more blurred with clean hits resulting in players wanting to fight. Just a few games ago, stempniak gets ference good with a clean hit, and ference gets up and starts throwing them. Stempniak is old school enough to engage, take his shots and move on. if stempniak didn't engage, got dropped/hurt, is it not the same situation?
i think the code has been, and will remain, if you go for a big hit on a team's skilled players, you better be prepared to answer for it. I thought orpik not doing so was a bit cowardly.... maybe that's the decades of coach's corner talking.
Sean Avery is pleased with what Thornton did. https://twitter.com/imseanavery Just saw the chicken **** moves by Orpik and Neal...maybe lying on the ice knocked out will make u think twice....#16
Sean Avery accusing someone else of chicken **** play is like Rob Ford accusing someone else of making poor decisions.
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i thought the Eriksson hit was more or less fine (we loved when sarich dished out the same exact hit).
The neal hit was dumb and he should sit a few games.
everyone understands thornton's role and what he was trying to do, but if the other player isn't willing to engage, you gotta sit back and take a number and wait for your opportunity. Everyone talks about a hockey code, and it gets more and more blurred with clean hits resulting in players wanting to fight. Just a few games ago, stempniak gets ference good with a clean hit, and ference gets up and starts throwing them. Stempniak is old school enough to engage, take his shots and move on. if stempniak didn't engage, got dropped/hurt, is it not the same situation?
i think the code has been, and will remain, if you go for a big hit on a team's skilled players, you better be prepared to answer for it. I thought orpik not doing so was a bit cowardly.... maybe that's the decades of coach's corner talking.
I think this post is generally pretty bang on. This is an interesting situation for me. I agree that Thronton needed to show more disipline and wait for an opportunity more appropriate to stick up for his team. That said, from a personal point of view, what Thronton did, didn't really make me think that much less of him. I actually thought he wasn't trying to "destroy" Orpik. The way he through Orpik down / slew footed him, along with the lack of vigor IMO he had behind his punches leads me to believe he wasn't trying to serioulsy injure Orpik. He didn't drive him into the ground, he didn't wrecklessly smack his head against the ice or even take close to half the wind up he could have when punching Orpik. Honestly think Orpik got really unlucky and Thronton must have just caught him right on the button.
Now, from a suspension and what's right point of view, nothing I said above matters. The NHL has to lower the hammer on Thronton IMO. The fact that I don't think he went as "hard" as he could have at Orpik doesn't change the fact that he still engaged a player that was not a willing combatant, and even if he "tried" to measure his response, the fact of the matter is he knocked him out and a stretcher was needed. The NHL needs to send the message that you can't attack un-willing players, and needs to send a message that if you do things you aren't suppossed to, and someone gets seriously hurt, you will pay a price.
^This is exactly why we're going to start seeing more faking. Imagine if that game was in late April with a playoff meeting in a week? Someone has to say to March and to sit tight and hit the showers to try to make sure Neal is out. To me, that is just logical. Its horrible for the game and its integrity, but honestly why wouldn't you?
The NHL has used injury to help determine suspensions for many, many years now. If it hasn't started happening yet, it likely won't. Give or take a Ribiero or two. Plus, the NHL will certainly be asking for medial reports before making a judgment.
