2013 NCAA football thread

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Has Sarkisian really done anything at UDub to deserve the USC job? None stop mediocrity suggests no, but he is connected to the program and was an ace recruiter there. But being a great recruiter has little to do with being a great coach (see Kiffin, Lane)

Or Muschamp..

He did take an 0-12 team and make them somewhat respectable.

I think USC will just hire more Carroll assistants hoping to hit it big

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Has Sarkisian really done anything at UDub to deserve the USC job? None stop mediocrity suggests no, but he is connected to the program and was an ace recruiter there. But being a great recruiter has little to do with being a great coach (see Kiffin, Lane)

Great recruiters are safe hires though. That way if they suck as a coach the next guy will have talent to work with.

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Has Sarkisian really done anything at UDub to deserve the USC job? None stop mediocrity suggests no, but he is connected to the program and was an ace recruiter there. But being a great recruiter has little to do with being a great coach (see Kiffin, Lane)

8-18 vs ranked opponents.

I'm not surprised to see the rumour floating around that slimeball Tosh Lupoi is headed to USC with him.

[Stay Golden]

Best of luck to and congrats to Valo's MSU taking down Ohio with their #1 ranked Defense. Seeing Saben take it on the chin and his NC title go up in smoke made up for that brain cramp of Hokes's going for an un-necessary 2 pts to win instead of going to OT.

[MacDaddy77]

If anyone in Calgary knows of a pub showing the PAC-12 championship game (ASU vs Stanford) can you please shoot me a PM and let me know where it is.

Ideally it's in the deep south but whatever

[FlamingLonghorn]

Saban to Texas rumors are really heating up. I am still not believing it, but everything from "the daughter has told friends she is moving" to "announcement coming next week" to "10 years 100 million and 1% of the LHN". All from various rumor mongers that have been hit and miss in the past. I've said all along I want a younger coach, but I wouldn't be upset if Saban happened (not a fan of his recruiting tactics either, treats 17 yr olds like pieces of meat), however I don't see how any Board of Regents would approve that contract.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

Saban to Texas rumors are really heating up. I am still not believing it, but everything from "the daughter has told friends she is moving" to "announcement coming next week" to "10 years 100 million and 1% of the LHN". All from various rumor mongers that have been hit and miss in the past. I've said all along I want a younger coach, but I wouldn't be upset if Saban happened (not a fan of his recruiting tactics either, treats 17 yr olds like pieces of meat), however I don't see how any Board of Regents would approve that contract.

lol, that's an understatement.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I still think the biggest reason Saban won't leave is in fact the Longhorn Network and the likely commitments he'd have to make. If Texas offered him the job and said he didn't have to do anything with the Longhorn Network I could definitely see him jumping. But we all know he hates that ####, so I don't see him leaving.

I also still think the only place he leaves Alabama for is another shot at the NFL. There are only lateral moves for him at the college level.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I still think the biggest reason Saban won't leave is in fact the Longhorn Network and the likely commitments he'd have to make. If Texas offered him the job and said he didn't have to do anything with the Longhorn Network I could definitely see him jumping. But we all know he hates that ####, so I don't see him leaving.

I also still think the only place he leaves Alabama for is another shot at the NFL. There are only lateral moves for him at the college level.

Well he might be more willing to do the LHN stuff if he owns a piece of it. I don't have him as my top choice only because I think he is a 3-5 yr solution. I would prefer a Mike Gundy, Gary Andersen, Art Briles, Charlie Strong, David Shaw type of proven up and comer over him that can stay 15 years. At the same time Saban can pretty much guarantee us a National Championship in the next 5 years if he comes something those others can't.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I'd be curious what 1% amounts to as a stake. Might be significant, might be just a little extra pocket change.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'd be curious what 1% amounts to as a stake. Might be significant, might be just a little extra pocket change.

Yeah it depends on if it's 1% of UT's stake or 1% of the whole thing. Somewhere between 150k to 300k a year at current numbers. However, i think you will see a strong push in the next few years to broaden the install base. For example part of the upcoming Notre Dame - Texas contract is that the UT home games will be on LHN. I expect them to get more high profile OOC games on there as well. Time Warner jumped on board this year. Directv ESPN rights are up in 2015 and ESPN will push for LHN to be included. However, I truly believe the only way the LHN becomes really successful is if UT goes independent.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Yeah, but it wasn't for all the marbles. If Alabama won, they probably still need to beat Missouri to get to the NC, assuming Florida State and Ohio State win out. Next week's SEC championship has a claim to be for all the marbles too, because the winner has a shot at jumping into the top two, even though we don't know for sure how the BCS is going to score it.

The system has the appearance of making games more important because it keeps the effects of outcomes unknown until after they happen. The iron bowl game seemed more important than it was because people thought that it might be enough to vault Auburn ahead of Ohio State. When you're inside the narrative, a lot of things seem huge. But in retrospect, few games are actually as large as they seemed. The Oregon/Stanford game seemed huge when it happened. Now it's a 'meh' moment of the season. If Auburn fails to reach the NC game, then the importance of this game will shrink significantly. Yeah, it took someone out of the championship picture, but it didn't get anyone into the championship. So it's definitely not an all-the-marbles game.

I'm not saying the new system is better. Actually, it's a lot worse. I hate it. Not because the games count for less, but because we'll have even less idea what the actual repercussions of particular results are, even after they happen. Media will hype up these games just as much, because nobody can tell them with authority that they don't have massive implications. We'll get the same 'all the marbles' lines, and they'll still be false 90% of the time. Fans will get caught up in these narratives and be just as into it, and then be outraged when their signature win didn't sway the selection committee as much as they thought it would.

That said, I do think there will be less controversy overall under the new system. Because ultimately people only care about the winner, and the winner will have legitimacy by surviving a playoff with three other elite teams. The team that finished 12-1 and with an okay schedule but lost out on a playoff berth to another 12-1 okay schedule team will be forgotten by the start of next year.

I'm sure we will find out over the next few years, but I'm positive this will create as many if not more controversies than the current system. Take this year, and pretend there is a 4 team playoff. Auburn wins the SEC this weekend and we are left with OSU, FSU, Auburn and Alabama. What if Auburn plays OSU and loses, and Alabama plays FSU and wins? Say FSU's QB goes down at some point so they get a cake walk. Then what was the point of the Iron Bowl? The only answer to that question is that there was NO point to the Iron bowl. How is Alabama any more legit of a champion in this system? They aren't its just different and we haven't (but will soon) see the scenarios that will make the regular season less important … a slow walk towards College basketball. Cool tournament but an absolute wasteland of a 3 or 4 month regular season.

Just wait, some kind of version of the above will happen and guess what? 8 team playoff will be all the rage. Once we get this system Conference championships become a pain the ass, and back ups start playing because who needs the injuries. Undefeated, 12-0 teams get some bad weather in the first round of their playoffs and, poof, they are out. Only to be supplanted by a couple 10-2 teams … which probably lost to the 12-0 team.

We just saw maybe the best game in the history of college ball last weekend. If we had a 8 team playoff, or even a 4 team, it would have meant much less. Nobody with a straight face can argue against that.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

We just saw maybe the best game in the history of college ball last weekend. If we had a 8 team playoff, or even a 4 team, it would have meant much less. Nobody with a straight face can argue against that.

I can argue it wasn't the best game in college history, maybe top 20. Had a top 5 finish though. Why would it have meant less? Because you can come up with a bunch of hypotheticals that can ruin a team in a 4 team playoff? Those same hypotheticals apply to the last two weeks of the season. What if Winston gets injured in the first quarter of Duke and they lose? What if bad weather causes Ohio St to lose to Michigan St? No one is going to be benching players because they are sure things. Losses are still going to knock you out especially if you get beat big. Will there be controversy? I am sure, but most seasons likely less than there is now. It won't ever approach College Basketball level as at the most we will only have 8 teams in the playoffs out of 120. Getting a spot will be very difficult and hopefully if they move to 8 it will include Byes for top 2 seeds for teams to play for.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

I can argue it wasn't the best game in college history, maybe top 20. Had a top 5 finish though. Why would it have meant less? Because you can come up with a bunch of hypotheticals that can ruin a team in a 4 team playoff? Those same hypotheticals apply to the last two weeks of the season. What if Winston gets injured in the first quarter of Duke and they lose? What if bad weather causes Ohio St to lose to Michigan St? No one is going to be benching players because they are sure things. Losses are still going to knock you out especially if you get beat big. Will there be controversy? I am sure, but most seasons likely less than there is now. It won't ever approach College Basketball level as at the most we will only have 8 teams in the playoffs out of 120. Getting a spot will be very difficult and hopefully if they move to 8 it will include Byes for top 2 seeds for teams to play for.

Your missing out on several points. I'll quote your lines and reply below:


Why would it have meant less? Because you can come up with a bunch of hypotheticals that can ruin a team in a 4 team playoff?

I'm saying the regular season will mean less. The iron bowl would have meant squat. And pointing out that people somehow think that a 4 team playoff will somehow create a legit Nat.Champ. It won't, it will be just be different. All we have right now is 16 years of BCS experience that people draw on to show the problems. All of them would hate to admit that most years it gets it right, very rarely do people at the end of the year say the Nat.Champ is illegitmate and that one team got screwed out of their big chance. Moon and Transplate probably could spend paragraphs complaining that Auburn deserves a shot over OSU, however probably don't have much to say about last years game, or the year before ... or most of the last 16 years. They and many, many others see one side of the coin. In the current system or the next one there are flaws, we won't be better off. The only difference will be a less meaningful regular season.

Those same hypotheticals apply to the last two weeks of the season. What if Winston gets injured in the first quarter of Duke and they lose? What if bad weather causes Ohio St to lose to Michigan St?

I agree, and in either the top 2 or top 4 scenario you will have people with 20/20 hindsight showing flaws in the system. Again my point is that a 4 team playoff won't create a more legitimate National Champion.


No one is going to be benching players because they are sure things. Losses are still going to knock you out especially if you get beat big.

Flat out untrue. In a top 8 scenario Auburn should bench starters because they are in either way. Alabama should sit starters in the Iron Bowl. OSU probably sits players vs Michigan because either way they just need to win the B10 to be in.


It won't ever approach College Basketball level as at the most we will only have 8 teams in the playoffs out of 120.

Yea, i agree, it won't get AS BAD as college basketball, I'm saying it moves in that direction. And any move in that direction, to me, kills what is the best thing about college ball.


Getting a spot will be very difficult and hopefully if they move to 8 it will include Byes for top 2 seeds for teams to play for.

That's confusing. I don't understand how you have a top 8 system with byes. Possibly you mean a top 6 system? if so, sure. 6 is better than 8. 4 is better than 6, and 2 is better than 4 as far as I'm concerned.

My main point is that what nobody thinks about is that what we have now is haters looking back at the last 16 years and pointing out things that didn't work well. Sure there's a few examples of that, but in reality there are way more examples of the current system nailing it. And creating a top 4 system won't fix a single thing. There will be times when a top 2 is all you need, and sometimes you need 3, maybe a 4th (very rarely 4 tho I think). So have you solved anything? No, just diluted the regular season.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Your missing out on several points. I'll quote your lines and reply below:


Why would it have meant less? Because you can come up with a bunch of hypotheticals that can ruin a team in a 4 team playoff?

I'm saying the regular season will mean less. The iron bowl would have meant squat. And pointing out that people somehow think that a 4 team playoff will somehow create a legit Nat.Champ. It won't, it will be just be different. All we have right now is 16 years of BCS experience that people draw on to show the problems. All of them would hate to admit that most years it gets it right, very rarely do people at the end of the year say the Nat.Champ is illegitmate and that one team got screwed out of their big chance. Moon and Transplate probably could spend paragraphs complaining that Auburn deserves a shot over OSU, however probably don't have much to say about last years game, or the year before ... or most of the last 16 years. They and many, many others see one side of the coin. In the current system or the next one there are flaws, we won't be better off. The only difference will be a less meaningful regular season.

Actually it would have meant a lot still. If Auburn lost they would have not made the playoff. And believe it or not Conference championships will still hold meaning.

Those same hypotheticals apply to the last two weeks of the season. What if Winston gets injured in the first quarter of Duke and they lose? What if bad weather causes Ohio St to lose to Michigan St?

I agree, and in either the top 2 or top 4 scenario you will have people with 20/20 hindsight showing flaws in the system. Again my point is that a 4 team playoff won't create a more legitimate National Champion.


No one is going to be benching players because they are sure things. Losses are still going to knock you out especially if you get beat big.

Flat out untrue. In a top 8 scenario Auburn should bench starters because they are in either way. Alabama should sit starters in the Iron Bowl. OSU probably sits players vs Michigan because either way they just need to win the B10 to be in.

I think you are forgetting 2 key things. One there is no guarantee that Auburn is in if they lose, especially if they sit their starters and get demolished. You have a one loss Baylor team at number 9 today (who would gain more after a win over a ranked Texas team), it would be awful ballsy for Auburn to assume they would stay above 8 with a loss (coach would probably be fired if they didn't). 2nd you are basing the top 8 being chosen by BCS standings and not a committee. I would think that the committee would pick Baylor and South Carolina over Auburn if Auburn chose to bench it's players and lost. Even if they wouldn't, it would be absolutely the worst decision by a coach ever to test that hypothesis.

Getting a spot will be very difficult and hopefully if they move to 8 it will include Byes for top 2 seeds for teams to play for.

That's confusing. I don't understand how you have a top 8 system with byes. Possibly you mean a top 6 system? if so, sure. 6 is better than 8. 4 is better than 6, and 2 is better than 4 as far as I'm concerned.

You're right it would have to be six.

My main point is that what nobody thinks about is that what we have now is haters looking back at the last 16 years and pointing out things that didn't work well. Sure there's a few examples of that, but in reality there are way more examples of the current system nailing it. And creating a top 4 system won't fix a single thing. There will be times when a top 2 is all you need, and sometimes you need 3, maybe a 4th (very rarely 4 tho I think). So have you solved anything? No, just diluted the regular season.

Well the best way to do it is to create a conference championship playoff then? Keeps regular season meaning and crowns a true champion through a playoff? Obviously realignment would have to happen. I honestly am not hugely in favor of the new system, but I am not really in favor of the current system. Save having a flexible system I don't see how you do it.

On another note I think margin of victory needs to be added back in to the BCS. I saw a great break down of how NIU is ranked really low in the computer polls, but because the margin of victory calculation is removed before putting it in the BCS formula they jump into the top 15 of all the computer polls. I know running up the score is bad sportsmanship, but it also removes outliers of crappy teams scraping by other crappy teams. Obviously moot because of NIU loss but interesting nonetheless.

PS. forgot until I saw him on TV a couple weeks ago Josh Huff was a Willie Lyles boy too.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

Yeah it depends on if it's 1% of UT's stake or 1% of the whole thing. Somewhere between 150k to 300k a year at current numbers. However, i think you will see a strong push in the next few years to broaden the install base. For example part of the upcoming Notre Dame - Texas contract is that the UT home games will be on LHN. I expect them to get more high profile OOC games on there as well. Time Warner jumped on board this year. Directv ESPN rights are up in 2015 and ESPN will push for LHN to be included. However, I truly believe the only way the LHN becomes really successful is if UT goes independent.

Rumor is Saban signed an extension with Bama and it will be announced today. Awful tough week for Texas wishful thinkers if true as Petersen (didn't want him anyway), Malzahn and Saban come off the board. Mack Brown might be able to keep his job with a loss as there isn't a whole lot out there. Names that I would still like Gundy, Smart (not sure he would ever leave), Chad Morris, Andersen and Briles (just signed an extension as well).

[PIMking]

Contracts done mean squat to saban, ask LSU and Miamuh

[nickerjones]

Booooooooooomer!!!!!!!

[transplant99]

Mizzou better start playing a bit of defense or they are going to get run right out of Atlanta.

[MacDaddy77]

such bull that we can't get espn in canada. i want to watch the PAC 12 game and now the kids are sick so I cant get it at home. so frustrating stupid TSN and womens sledge hockey