Denver Post Article on Scott Parker (and his thoughts on Bob Hartley)

[Poe969]

I wonder how people are going to react if Monahan comes back and isn't playing great then Hartley either keeps him in the pressbox for a few games or puts him on the fourth line with McGrattan.

Sure, the things I mentioned are all opinion but the teams record is fact. How many games have the Flames crapped the bed in the third? How many times has the team come out flat or the lines been so terrible because there is no chemistry and when there is chemistry and it's broken up because he wants to prove a point or spread out the tallent.... Hartley is an old style coach in a new style game. He either needs to learn how successful teams are coached or move on.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Itse

Obviously there's no way of knowing what would have become of the guys that are pushed into fighter roles. It's not like a coach is going to tell that to an already esbalished player.

(Also, there's meaningful hockey to be played outside the tier of "impact NHL players", which is a tall order. I'm sure a lot of guys would have been perfectly happy to catch a couple of seasons with a few dozen games as a depth guy, instead of being fighters, if they had gotten the options.

Btw, considering how long McGrattan went without fighting to start the season, and that he is obviously expected and allowed to play hockey out there just like everyone else, I think there's a good chance that his attitude towards fighting has changed somewhat.

But it's again a pretty ugly picture of NHL fighting and the "respect" these guys are getting in reality. Respect as long as you never take a break or admit you're hurt is not what I would call genuine respect.

It certainly doesn't seem like Hartley had a lot of respect for Scott Parker. I can't disagree that he was an a$$hole to the man, but do I care? Not really.

Do I know Hartley from a hole in the ground? Not really, no. I was at one scrum he held right before the start of the regular season. He seemed a decent human being in that setting.

Last winter I worked at the Saddledome, in no glamorous capacity. But I did get to see the team practice every day, and in those situations, he didn't ever appear to be unfairly singling out players or belittling anyone the way the old guard is famous for. Much like Keenan, I think he's probably changed since he started.

The last thing I will always remember about Bob Hartley is this: during one optional skate last season, there were only the goalies and a handful of skaters. A few Hitmen were on the ice to help out, and although they were just practice bodies, Hartley was taking the time to coach them like they were NHL players. And from 150 feet away, you could understand the message he was trying to convey. You could understand the purpose of the instruction, you could see exactly how it would make the young man a better player.

It's plainly obvious that the team doesn't have the talent or the horses to get Ws most nights, especially against the murderer's row that comprises our division. So really, all Hartley can do right now is create a culture and an atmosphere where certain behaviors and attitudes are not acceptable. Hopefully, by the time we have a roster ready to make the next step, the core pieces like Sven, Monahan etc have the right habits in place for them to be successful.

[puckluck2]

"He would call me a (expletive), say that Hershey (the Avs' former minor-league affiliate) would be my next stop, where I'd be 'smelling chocolate fumes all day long.' I remember I thought I had a broken foot and told him about it, and he called me a (expletive) and said Hershey would love me," Parker said. "Nobody needed to question my commitment to doing my job. But I was just constantly belittled by Bob Hartley. I really have no respect for the man."

people are defending this crap?

[Stanley]

So what is it Flames fans? Should we hire a coach that will hand out beach balls and fairy dust during practice and ensure we teach players to have fun and not hurt people's feelings?

Should we reward young players with more icetime and not teach them lessons even though they clearly struggle to play a complete game?

Should we have the average fan decide the starting lineup and matchups throughout the game?

I mean, Hartley may not be the best coach, but jeezus people overreact on this board. It's the NHL man, grow balls or go home. I had dick coaches in bloody bantam, I can only imagine what it's like in NHL...what are we supposed to coddle players in the pros now? These millionaires are priviliged to be playing hockey as a living, the least they can do is suck it up if a coach "hurts their feelings" or benches them. I'm tired of hearing fans "worried" about a young player's development because of tough love. Jeezus they're pro hockey players not abused foster children...

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

If this was from Joe Sakic I would listen to it. But it's Scott Parker, the biggest plug to ever play in the NHL. You people are naive if you believe this.

Yep.... Hartley bullies Sakic or Fosberg or Rob Blake and he doesn't last the year.

[Vinny01]

I just don't get the Hartley hate? The Flames have easily the worst roster on paper in the entire league yet are 25th overall while suffering significant injuries to very important players. The team through the first 30% of the season has been prett fun to watch which is a surprise to most I would think?

People think Sven is being mistreated? I think Sven has basically sucked all year. He was garbage in Penticton and has only shown a few flashes of what he can be this year. None of us know what is going on in the locker room but my guess as to why a guy like Colborne is getting a better opportunity than Backlund is because he is a harder worker off the ice and not necessarily in the gym but perhaps with video and the coaches?

I don't think there is a coach that could get this team in a much better spot than Bob has them in. If you listen to the recent comments from Burke and Feaster they would agree

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

What the heck is Stempniak doing playing (poorly) with his broken foot?

I assumed that Hartley was the President of the Stempniak fan club. Maybe Hartley is using him to show the young guys that they be ready to play hurt. If an 8 year veteran millionaire can be made to play hurt why shouldn't Monahan suck it up and play hurt. I wonder how many games Monahan played to proof he was tough and who finally decided enough was enough.

Last year Blair Jones was a precious resource that the Flames really lacked. Hartley flexed his authority to show he controlled the room.

David Jones started off stronger and has faded. His only punishment is not playing the PP (behind Stempniak) but he is making his $4M for the next 3 years and Hartley will be long gone from coaching in the NHL by then.

Glencross obviously understands that he is untouchable on the Flames and was not busting a gut for Hartley. How can Hartley punish Glencross? --- Ben Street is your Centre.

Maybe start a Lee Stempniak thread instead of trying to derail every thread with this garbage.

[Robo]

If any thing that article shows hartley is a very honest man Scott parker is an (expletive)

[mikeecho]

What I get from this article is that Hartley was open and brutally honest with a guy who was a borderline NHLer and more than likely should have been a minor leaguer. Use your skill sets and suck up the injuries or you have no place on this roster as someone else will take your job.

That's the reality for 1/2 of the guys in the league. At least he heard it straight from the coach. Many coaches in the league don't even talk to the players and leave that to the assistants.

If Parker wanted to have the message sugar coated, then he'd likely have spent his career in the minors. I suspect it's more bitterness from a tough guy like Parker who resented being bossed around by a guy half his size who never played in the NHL.

For those wanting the Flames to fire Hartley because of this article... I suspect you'd be mortified if you knew how Darryl treated his players. If you go by Warreners accounts, Darryl had the same kind of dialogue, except he would call out and embarrass his players infront of the entire team... And the people of Calgary pretty much have him the key to the city for being a great coach.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I just don't get the Hartley hate? The Flames have easily the worst roster on paper in the entire league yet are 25th overall while suffering significant injuries to very important players. The team through the first 30% of the season has been prett fun to watch which is a surprise to most I would think?

People think Sven is being mistreated? I think Sven has basically sucked all year. He was garbage in Penticton and has only shown a few flashes of what he can be this year. None of us know what is going on in the locker room but my guess as to why a guy like Colborne is getting a better opportunity than Backlund is because he is a harder worker off the ice and not necessarily in the gym but perhaps with video and the coaches?

I don't think there is a coach that could get this team in a much better spot than Bob has them in. If you listen to the recent comments from Burke and Feaster they would agree

Last season the Flames spent to the cap.... they had Iginla, Bouwmeester, Kipper. .... signed expensive UFA's Hudler and Wideman. Their defense was so good that the Hartley put Corey Sarich in the stands as a healthy scratch.... and they finished with the very worst record in Flames history.


The fact that Hartley was back for a second year based on his 2012-13 coaching results was a major surprise. Feaster took a lot of the blame for Cervenka but Hartley/Feaster have to be on a short leash.

[Calgary4LIfe]

If he is like this currently, then he should be fired of course.

However, if there is anything that I have read that is consistent with Hartley's tenure here so far, it is that he is a player's coach, is fairly positive mostly, and tries to talk and teach his players. The one incident with Blair Jones when he got into a heated discussion, and I believe the Backlund one where he was pretty mad at him after the delay of game penalty seemed to be the only two instances I can think of.

Sven even talked about how he sits with Hartley (as have others) and are shown mistakes and taught how they could be more effective. Doesn't sound like a guy who has been bullying the players at all.

I am not saying what Parker said isn't true. I am also saying that if it is indeed true that Hartley hasn't in fact changed, and is continuing this kind of behavior, then he should be let go ASAP. I just don't think this is going on at all - reporters like Millions that follow the team and watch practices would have reported on a few incidents by now, and by all accounts, Hartley seems like a real player's coach these days.

People change. Like another poster stated above, "Iron" Mike was anything but Iron in his time in Calgary. Hard-nosed old school coaches like him wear out their welcome quickly - Wilson is a good example of such a coach. Iron Mike knew he had to change his ways in today's NHL where a coach will always lose against the highly paid stars. What makes people think Hartley hasn't realized this as well?

[Mango]

Reading this article reminds me of what happened between Byron Ritchie and Jim Playfair in 2007. Injuries moved Ritchie up the depth chart, but when the team got healthy again, Ritchie was back to his grinding role and sometimes found himself in the pressbox. The same thing happened with Jeff Friesen, who didn't want to play the role of a defensive forward. Playfair as forced to apologize to some of the players and was demoted the following season.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I wonder how people are going to react if Monahan comes back and isn't playing great then Hartley either keeps him in the pressbox for a few games or puts him on the fourth line with McGrattan.

Sure, the things I mentioned are all opinion but the teams record is fact. How many games have the Flames crapped the bed in the third? How many times has the team come out flat or the lines been so terrible because there is no chemistry and when there is chemistry and it's broken up because he wants to prove a point or spread out the tallent.... Hartley is an old style coach in a new style game. He either needs to learn how successful teams are coached or move on.

This is year one of a (long-overdue) rebuild. This is a very weak team. I do not agree with all of Hartley's decisions but small lineup changes are more or less shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, and will not make any significant difference.

He is not working in a vaccum and for all we know he is under direction straight from management to try different players in different roles.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by strombad

No, you're taking one of his opinions as the whole story on the make of a man, which is asinine. I assumed you would then have no problem taking his his opinion on fighting as the whole story about fighting. Because why not right?



As troutman posted, Tanguay seems to like Hartley. Who are we more concerned about here? Parker(Grats)? Or Tanguay(Sven)?

No, its not just Parker's opinion. Its my opinion as well. This is from what I've seen from the past 1.5 years. Albeit I'm not in the dressing room (obviously) and know squat. But through the media and how he speaks and coaches this team (treatment of Backs and Sven) is how I based my opinion of him. Just that Parker's opinion coincides with my current feelings towards Bob.

I don't want Bob to be fired because of what Parker says. What Parker said just reinforces what I already think.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Stanley

So what is it Flames fans? Should we hire a coach that will hand out beach balls and fairy dust during practice and ensure we teach players to have fun and not hurt people's feelings?

Should we reward young players with more icetime and not teach them lessons even though they clearly struggle to play a complete game?

Should we have the average fan decide the starting lineup and matchups throughout the game?

I mean, Hartley may not be the best coach, but jeezus people overreact on this board. It's the NHL man, grow balls or go home. I had dick coaches in bloody bantam, I can only imagine what it's like in NHL...what are we supposed to coddle players in the pros now? These millionaires are priviliged to be playing hockey as a living, the least they can do is suck it up if a coach "hurts their feelings" or benches them. I'm tired of hearing fans "worried" about a young player's development because of tough love. Jeezus they're pro hockey players not abused foster children...

Quoted this one just because it is a classic example of the false dichotomy that so many people argue: would you rather Hartley be this or be like Edmonton?

There is more than just the two extremes, people.

Similarly, there is a popular view on this thread that has been basically saying that lots of (if not most) NHL coaches are tough and preach tough love. That is absolutely true.

However, there is tough, and there is bullying - they are different things. I am not going to condemn Hartley just from the statements of one former player, but I will say that there is no room for bullying. And this is not the only smoke that has ever arisen on this issue.

Coaches need to be tough as they are trying to get the most out of their players. But they also have to respect the players.

I get what Hartley is trying to do, but sometimes I think he misses the mark a bit. Who doesn't?

But when people do miss the mark or cross a line, they shouldn't be above reproach.

Not condemning him for this, but IMO he has mismanaged some players during his stint here.

[CaramonLS]

"The beatings will continue until morale improves".

Fear and intimidation are bad long term motivators and generally cause a decrease in performance. Maybe you could have gotten away with this more 10-15 years ago, but times are changing. If it is true that he is telling Parker to go out and play injured, that is unacceptable.

[Buck Murdock]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

"The beatings will continue until morale improves".

Fear and intimidation are bad long term motivators and generally cause a decrease in performance. Maybe you could have gotten away with this more 10-15 years ago, but times are changing. If it is true that he is telling Parker to go out and play injured, that is unacceptable.

agreed, but everyone is reacting to a soundbite from a player who played 10+ years ago. I'm sure Bob's side of the story would be much different.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

"He would call me a (expletive), say that Hershey (the Avs' former minor-league affiliate) would be my next stop, where I'd be 'smelling chocolate fumes all day long.' I remember I thought I had a broken foot and told him about it, and he called me a (expletive) and said Hershey would love me," Parker said. "Nobody needed to question my commitment to doing my job. But I was just constantly belittled by Bob Hartley. I really have no respect for the man."

people are defending this crap?

Some people are defending it, others are treating the words of Parker like gospel.

[habernac]

A young Scotty Bowman was coaching the Blues. Their farm team at the time was in Kansas City. He was having issues with some of his players spending a lot of time in the pub and not concentrating enough on hockey. He walked into the pub post game and past his players and went over to the jukebox. He put in his quarter and selected a song. "Kansas City Here I Come" started playing. He didn't have much issue with his players not taking the game seriously after that.

[FlamesAddiction]

If Scott Parker couldn't fight, then he was pretty damn useless. That might be sad, but it was the truth. I'm not saying that it was right for Hartley to make him fight even if he wasn't healthy (if that is indeed what happened), but he was no good to the team otherwise and would obviously lose his job. That's the case with every fringe player, whether they are fighters or not. If you can't do your job, another one will come in and do it for you, hence why a lot of them play injured. It's not the coach forcing it as much as it is reality.