Will Sven Bounce Back?

[nik-]

At this point I want them to send Sven down just to get him away from our hack coach.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yup. He would be far better off playing on a line with Granlund and Ferland, tearing up the A and leading them on a deep playoff run, than sitting in the press box watching guys like Jones and Galiardi and McGrattan.

Either play him or send him to the A to give him an opportunity to work on his game.

It didn't seem to hurt kadri. He might feel like a weight has been lifted off his shoulders, and then when a few people get traded, bring him back up with his confidence sky high.

It's probably not a coincidence that Sven's best games as a pro came when he viewed himself as a 2 ppg player.

[StrykerSteve]

AHL would be best for Baerstchi, at this point in time.

[mustache ride]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The level of paranoia and utter lack of logic in this post is something to behold. Bob Hartley is purposely sabotaging what could be his last chance as an NHL head coach because he personally 'hates' one of his two prize rookies?

On the surface your point seems logical. But remember last year he torched B.Jones and sent him to the minors at a point when he was the teams only actual center. It's Hartley's way ( whatever that is) or the highway for some, and business as usual for others.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It's either that or the guy who coached Sakic Forsberg Roy Blake Bourque and Hejduk to the Cup knows what greatness requires and wants to see Sven attain that level too.

Lets not overestimate the amount of "coaching" it took to get four of the greatest players to ever play the game to succeed. Also WTF is Hejduk's name doing listed with them?

[IgiTang]

100% agree with sending him down. Imagine what kinda chemistry he could build by playing with the players he will eventually be playing with.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by mustache ride

Lets not overestimate the amount of "coaching" it took to get four of the greatest players to ever play the game to succeed. Also WTF is Hejduk's name doing listed with them?

If you watch sports, even more so, multiple sports (ok, not Basketball!!), you realize that coaching a talented team to a title is not a sure bet.

Last year alone in the NHL, I counted 5 elite teams (if not more) 4 of their coaches didn't win a title. Not sure we can punish a coach for winning it, if we can rip him apart if he doesn't.

[mustache ride]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

If you watch sports, even more so, multiple sports (ok, not Basketball!!), you realize that coaching a talented team to a title is not a sure bet.

Last year alone in the NHL, I counted 5 elite teams (if not more) 4 of their coaches didn't win a title. Not sure we can punish a coach for winning it, if we can rip him apart if he doesn't.

Yes that's often true with talented players who lack maturity and integrity. Sakic, Forsberg and Bourque do not fit this criteria. Roy did but the goalie position isolated his influence and it doesnt hurt that he is the second (?) best goalie of all time. I'm not trying to take away credit for Hartley's cup, just responding to the post using Hartley's coaching of one the best assembled teams over the past 20 years as a justification of his current coaching decisions.

[Poe969]

I agree with those saying that he should be sent down. He's either going to go down and be amazing or go down and be worse.... sitting in the press box won't help him at all.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by mustache ride

On the surface your point seems logical. But remember last year he torched B.Jones and sent him to the minors at a point when he was the teams only actual center. It's Hartley's way ( whatever that is) or the highway for some, and business as usual for others.



Lets not overestimate the amount of "coaching" it took to get four of the greatest players to ever play the game to succeed. Also WTF is Hejduk's name doing listed with them?

1. Maybe ask what Blair Jones did to put Hartley in the position where he sent his only natural centre to the farm.

2. This is a terrible argument. If it took no coaching for those players, why didn't they win it all the year before? Why did Detroit's President's trophy teams consistently bite it in the playoffs against teams like Calgary and Edmonton and Anaheim?

Did you happen to notice that Pittsburgh, the team that had the two best individual players in the world, was the only team in the final four last year who didn't win a single game and looked entirely out classed? And is it coincidence that the other three teams were vastly better coached?

How about iginla? A little closer to home, do you really think that great player = not needing coaching? Because of Iggy needed anything during his final four years here, it was some guidance and leadership.

So forgive me but yeah, I do think great players need coaching. If anything, they need a higher standard of coaching, which could be why a guy like Scotty bowman is revered. But he had some pretty awesome rosters, so I'm sure he really didn't coach them that much.

3. While Hejduk may not have had the career of the others mentioned, he scored 20 goals in 12 straight seasons and scored 50 once. He has a championship and he was a key contributor to that team's success, so that's why he gets mentioned.

Thank you and goodnight.

[mustache ride]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

1. Maybe ask what Blair Jones did to put Hartley in the position where he sent his only natural centre to the farm.

They're not talking but does it really matter? It is just another example of Hartley failing to connect with a young player. If cutting off your nose to spite your face is a winning strategy then the rebuild is over.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Drunken rambling nonsense

I think the Billy Madison quote would apply to the rest of your post.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

So forgive me but yeah, I do think great players need coaching. If anything, they need a higher standard of coaching, which could be why a guy like Scotty bowman is revered.

The greatest individual athletes in the world all have terrific coaches. There must be a reason for that.

Few individuals can observe themselves in a completely objective way. Here and there, yes. But someone watching from "outside" often sees things that person does not. My favourite Clara Hughes - a fine athlete and a finer person - had coaches, too. Why? To make herself better. To drive harder. To see things she couldn't or didn't.

The complexity in hockey is combining the individual with the team. Someone mentioned back a bunch of posts about Sven playing too soft a game, passing before he ventured into tough areas - two things that make it difficult to be a great hockey player - and to build a winning team. Those are things that the coach rightly can crap on. Personally I think it's better done privately, but sometimes calling a player out in public works, too.

And really, unless someone here is "in the room", none of really have any clue what's really going on.

And please - for the person who used the word "hate" to describe Hartley vs. Baertschi , well, how about toning it down to "is bothered by"....there really is too much REAL hate in this world to let that go by quietly (at least for me).

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by mustache ride

They're not talking but does it really matter? It is just another example of Hartley failing to connect with a young player. If cutting off your nose to spite your face is a winning strategy then the rebuild is over.



I think the Billy Madison quote would apply to the rest of your post.

Try reading it.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by nik-

At this point I want them to send Sven down just to get him away from our hack coach.

I hear ya, I hate coaches that don't use a young players natural abilities but instead try to build them into 2 ways players immediately. players like Kane and Giroux were horrible defensively their first 2 seasons before they "got it" but now they are not only offensive stars they play great away from the puck as well.

History has shown tactics like what Hartley is doing is a fast way to get a pink slip.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I think the next logical step would be to have Sven's agent visit the team and have a talk with the GM and coach.

[bubbsy]

sure feels like it's been a complete waste of a development year for baertchi.

this is the reason the flames are considered among the league worst in developing prospects, they literally have no idea what they're doing.

hopefully having some elite junior/college prospects raises the probability of a few of them actually making it to the big leagues in spite of the flames developmental ways, but without an organizational strategy built to bring up their prospects, this rebuild could be headed in the direction of so many failed attempts we witness across the league.

[edslunch]

Whatever Hartley is trying to do with Sven it doesn't seem to be working too well. He seems to be trying harder but apparently not enough, but in the meantime his offensive abilities (his strength) have vanished. It seems like his confidence is shot.

Best to send him down at this point, take a break from Hartley and get his mojo going again

[saillias]

Originally Posted by mustache ride

I think the Billy Madison quote would apply to the rest of your post.

What a BS copout.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

sure feels like it's been a complete waste of a development year for baertchi.

this is the reason the flames are considered among the league worst in developing prospects, they literally have no idea what they're doing.

hopefully having some elite junior/college prospects raises the probability of a few of them actually making it to the big leagues in spite of the flames developmental ways, but without an organizational strategy built to bring up their prospects, this rebuild could be headed in the direction of so many failed attempts we witness across the league.

For one, it's been 20 games. Hard to really convince anyone the whole year has been wasted at this point.

Secondly, the entire development system the Flames have is completely different from what it was even 3-4 years ago, so why don't we actually back down from the "this is what the Flamea are known for" crap. Brodie and Bouma have both developed nicely, and a lot of guys playing on the Heat look like they've taken a big step. Sven is struggling, this does not dictate the entire ability of the Flames development staff.

Either way, ridiculous cop out to lean on an idea that is no longer relevant. This isn't 2008. We have the best AHL team in the league despite having no high end prospects. Our development must be garbage!

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by strombad

For one, it's been 20 games. Hard to really convince anyone the whole year has been wasted at this point.

Secondly, the entire development system the Flames have is completely different from what it was even 3-4 years ago, so why don't we actually back down from the "this is what the Flamea are known for" crap. Brodie and Bouma have both developed nicely, and a lot of guys playing on the Heat look like they've taken a big step. Sven is struggling, this does not dictate the entire ability of the Flames development staff.

Either way, ridiculous cop out to lean on an idea that is no longer relevant. This isn't 2008. We have the best AHL team in the league despite having no high end prospects. Our development must be garbage!

brodie's a good example, but until a case can be made otherwise, he's the exception not the rule.

Backlund/baertchi first round picks being developed adequately and given the type of "leashes" to succeed is critical. So far this season, sure doesn't seem like the organization has succeeded in making players successful at the NHL level.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

brodie's a good example, but until a case can be made otherwise, he's the exception not the rule.

Backlund/baertchi first round picks being developed adequately and given the type of "leashes" to succeed is critical. So far this season, sure doesn't seem like the organization has succeeded in making players successful at the NHL level.

Brodie, Bouma, Blair Jones has been good during his stint, Monahan has been great, Colborne has been steadily improving, Berra has been given plenty of leash.

You're cherry picking to make a point. Baertschi has struggled and Backlund hasn't been able to put up much offence. Development isn't just about how your two mid-range 1st rounders do, it's about everyone. Nor is this "leash" idea even remotely applicable. You can just give them infinite room to make mistakes without threat of repercussion. That's a way to ruin a prospect.