Will This City Support A Rebuild?

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by strombad

Wow, people like that are kind of embarrassing to a hockey fan in general. The Flames aren't even my 'team' and yet I still find reasons to cheer for them this season.

I can see giving up your season tickets, some people just don't have an appetite for watching a team lose repeatedly. But "no longer cheering for them"? That's pretty embarrassing to say as a fan of hockey in general. Win or lose, you cheer for your team, if you don't want to give them money, don't, but abandoning your team just means you're a fair weather fan, and those fans generally aren't well respected.

To the point, I think the Flames will be fine. Calgary is filthy rich with people that have too much money on their hands. The big companies will still pay for their tickets as a way to treat employees and guests, and while some fans (both fair weather and devoted) drop their season tickets, others who have been waiting for the chance will scoop new ones up.

It's a good question, but it seems like it was only asked so OP could 'boast' about how his whole family and his sister's cousin's dog don't like the Flames any longer.

I agree. I will never stop cheering for this team or being a Flames fan. I do have a problem though dishing out my money to an inferior product that I believe is not managed well. The two most recent lockouts, without question, completely soured me on the NHL as a league. I have lost respect for the players/owners/TV networks who are squabbling over millions and now billions of dollars. Hockey in my opinion has stopped being about the game and is now about the business and greed. As I get older I have a hard time justifying the cost to watch these spoiled athletes put out a mediocre product. I have a hard time sympathizing with billionaire owners who need public support to build new arenas or they will leave town. I have a hard time supporting TV stations who are ripping apart the history and culture of our game (I'm looking at you Rogers and CBC) all in order to make a few bucks. Meanwhile police officers, nurses, teachers, fire fighters and other essential service workers are just trying to pay their mortgage and feed their family. I understand it is entertainment and that they are paid what people are obviously willing to pay. This is why I love the CFL. Athletes who still play, for the most part, for the love of the game. They are barely paid peanuts for their efforts on the field. The price to watch is more than affordable and I find the product genuine and entertaining. I can't say the same about the NHL/Flames.

In essence, no the Flames will not struggle or fold. There is too much money in this city and too many sheep who will blindly throw cash while basically accepting the teams fortunes. On the flip side, I guess we need these people to keep the team alive. I can handle a rebuild, I've been doing it for two decades minus 2004-2007. The city will as well. I will continue supporting the Flames as I always have. It is not the losing that bugs me, it is the environment surrounding the team. Call me bandwagon I don't care. I'll never abandone them, but I sure as hell won't feed into the system of greed that currently corrupts the game. End rant.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by RedWinger89

As the questions poses, will this city support a rebuilding franchise that is destined to pick last for several years? Remember the last time the Flames were really bad, they needed a campaign to keep them. Could the sellout streak end and attendance reach Phoenix levels?

In the 90s:

• Calgary was only slowly emerging from a long economic slump by the late 90s. It may be hard for younger people to believe, but this city has a cyclical economy and the downside of those cycles is really bad.
  
• The CDN dollar was at 63 cents U.S. Revenues were in CDN dollars, but expenses were in U.S. dollars. That was a brutal financial handicap.
  
• Given the above two condition, the absence of a salary cap meant the Flames (and Oilers, and Senators) simply couldn't compete with the more affluent teams in the league, or even with mid-market U.S. teams. We had to sell off all our best players because we couldn't afford to sign them.

None of those conditions apply today. The Alberta economy is strong, the CDN dollar is at close to par, and there's a salary cap in place.

As for how losing will affect the fanbase, the business of NHL hockey is very different today than it was 20 years ago. The core business of the Flames is selling expensive boxes and seats to companies, which use them as business shmoozing perks. As long as the oil and gas sector remains strong, those companies will continue to buy tickets, regardless of how well the Flames perform on the ice. Sure, those company tickets might find their way into the hands of the receptionist or payroll clerk more often than before, but that doesn't affect the bottom line of the Flames.

The price of a barrel oil has far more impact on the Flames franchise than the win-loss ratio.

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by strombad

Wow, people like that are kind of embarrassing to a hockey fan in general. The Flames aren't even my 'team' and yet I still find reasons to cheer for them this season.

I can see giving up your season tickets, some people just don't have an appetite for watching a team lose repeatedly. But "no longer cheering for them"? That's pretty embarrassing to say as a fan of hockey in general. Win or lose, you cheer for your team, if you don't want to give them money, don't, but abandoning your team just means you're a fair weather fan, and those fans generally aren't well respected.

To the point, I think the Flames will be fine. Calgary is filthy rich with people that have too much money on their hands. The big companies will still pay for their tickets as a way to treat employees and guests, and while some fans (both fair weather and devoted) drop their season tickets, others who have been waiting for the chance will scoop new ones up.

It's a good question, but it seems like it was only asked so OP could 'boast' about how his whole family and his sister's cousin's dog don't like the Flames any longer.

I agree. I will never stop cheering for this team or being a Flames fan. I do have a problem though dishing out my money to an inferior product that I believe is not managed well. The two most recent lockouts, without question, completely soured me on the NHL as a league. I have lost respect for the players/owners/TV networks who are squabbling over millions and now billions of dollars. Hockey in my opinion has stopped being about the game and is now about the business and greed. As I get older I have a hard time justifying the cost to watch these spoiled athletes put out a mediocre product. I have a hard time sympathizing with billionaire owners who need public support to build new arenas or they will leave town. I have a hard time supporting TV stations who are ripping apart the history and culture of our game (I'm looking at you Rogers and CBC) all in order to make a few bucks. Meanwhile police officers, nurses, teachers, fire fighters and other essential service workers are just trying to pay their mortgage and feed their family. I understand it is entertainment and that they are paid what people are obviously willing to pay. This is why I love the CFL. Athletes who still play, for the most part, for the love of the game. They are barely paid peanuts for their efforts on the field. The price to watch is more than affordable and I find the product genuine and entertaining. I can't say the same about the NHL/Flames.


In essence, no the Flames will not struggle or fold. There is too much money in this city and too many sheep who will blindly throw cash while basically accepting the teams fortunes. On the flip side, I guess we need these people to keep the team alive. I can handle a rebuild, I've been doing it for two decades minus 2004-2007. The city will as well. I will continue supporting the Flames as I always have. It is not the losing that bugs me, it is the environment surrounding the team. Call me bandwagon I don't care. I'll never abandone them, but I sure as hell won't feed into the system of greed that currently corrupts the game. End rant.

[The Familia]

Sorry double post.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Are we really doing this so early into a rebuild???

I think you're seeing plenty of traffic on this site discussing prospects and the future. I don't think anyone thinks it will be all sunshine and roses, but I would be shocked if the Flames had the same trouble drawing fans like they did before. Economics are totally different too.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I agree. I will never stop cheering for this team or being a Flames fan. I do have a problem though dishing out my money to an inferior product that I believe is not managed well. The two most recent lockouts, without question, completely soured me on the NHL as a league. I have lost respect for the players/owners/TV networks who are squabbling over millions and now billions of dollars. Hockey in my opinion has stopped being about the game and is now about the business and greed. As I get older I have a hard time justifying the cost to watch these spoiled athletes put out a mediocre product. I have a hard time sympathizing with billionaire owners who need public support to build new arenas or they will leave town. I have a hard time supporting TV stations who are ripping apart the history and culture of our game (I'm looking at you Rogers and CBC) all in order to make a few bucks. Meanwhile police officers, nurses, teachers, fire fighters and other essential service workers are just trying to pay their mortgage and feed their family. I understand it is entertainment and that they are paid what people are obviously willing to pay. This is why I love the CFL. Athletes who still play, for the most part, for the love of the game. They are barely paid peanuts for their efforts on the field. The price to watch is more than affordable and I find the product genuine and entertaining. I can't say the same about the NHL/Flames.


In essence, no the Flames will not struggle or fold. There is too much money in this city and too many sheep who will blindly throw cash while basically accepting the teams fortunes. On the flip side, I guess we need these people to keep the team alive. I can handle a rebuild, I've been doing it for two decades minus 2004-2007. The city will as well. I will continue supporting the Flames as I always have. It is not the losing that bugs me, it is the environment surrounding the team. Call me bandwagon I don't care. I'll never abandone them, but I sure as hell won't feed into the system of greed that currently corrupts the game. End rant.

What a terrible post. Makes me want to vomit. This love the of the game nonsense you're spewing.. are you 7 years old? Do you work for free? Do you have bills to pay and a family to feed?

What goofy, non-sensical world do you live in?

You love the CFL for the menial pay they get and the fact that most of them have to work a second job? Clap clap clap. Good for you. I'm sure each and every one of them would sell out their own mother for an NFL contract.

If you want to watch hockey that isn't so 'corrupted', go to one of the dozens of arenas around town and watch kids play. If you ever got up in front of a crowd and ranted and raved the way you did in your ridiculous post, people would throw garbage at you for being such a fool. What a disaster you are.

[CaptainYooh]

I think OP's question was formulated too extremely, hence, the reaction. It could have been better asked with a different angle: "How long would you, as a fan, have the patience required to support a losing team through a rebuild?" Or at least, how long do you think of it now, when fans are somewhat enthusiastic about it. Both King and Burke so far have refused to provide a timeline for the rebuild saying that giving a timeline would mean that they know how long it takes and they don't. Both are saying that the mandate from the owners is as soon as possible, which is equivalent to as long as it takes. The thing is, for the organization that is a $350M franchise operation it is the only way to approach this now, because it's about money. For a fan, it's only about loyalty to your team and even the strongest loyalties do get tested hard by time, when hopes fade and apathy settles in.

[djsFlames]

Just cause the team is going through some major injuries that are going to result in some tough nights doesn't mean we have to go all nuclear right now. This team's been pretty fun to watch when healthy. Right now there's not much we can do about it..

But yeah, many in this city are going to be turned off of the team over the next season or two while they figure things out. There are a lot more bandwagon fans out there than people want to admit. Easy to like a team when the times are good. But we'll see the real fans stick out soon enough while the rest get too embarrassed to continue supporting and go find other things to do.

Just need to start taking the scoreboard less seriously and look at the hockey itself. Watch these kids get better and better and take some fun out of that.

[FaFaFlamey]

Originally Posted by RedWinger89

Alright so if they don't finish dead last and continue missing the playoffs, will fans hand out their hard earned money for an inferior product? I say no. I don't blame them either. I know my uncle gave up his tickets and is no longer cheering for the team.

This team has been inferior for years. People were in denial about the rebuild and it's need for YEARS! The team struggling is nothing new. Only there are way less expectations. People in this city will continue to support this team as they have for the last 9 years without a single playoff series win....and more recently....without making the playoffs (in years). It's the hottest ticket in the city, and will remain the hottest ticket in the city as people who go feel that going to an NHL game is pretty big deal.

[Badgers Nose]

Look at the positives. These will be the glory years for people that love hockey. They will actually be able to get to the dome for games.

[Lanny_McDonald]

The real question is, "Will the bandwagon fans stick with the team or will they jump off the bandwagon as quickly as they got on back in 2004?"

The real answer is, "Who cares?"

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by Tyler

What a terrible post. Makes me want to vomit. This love the of the game nonsense you're spewing.. are you 7 years old? Do you work for free? Do you have bills to pay and a family to feed?

What goofy, non-sensical world do you live in?

You love the CFL for the menial pay they get and the fact that most of them have to work a second job? Clap clap clap. Good for you. I'm sure each and every one of them would sell out their own mother for an NFL contract.

If you want to watch hockey that isn't so 'corrupted', go to one of the dozens of arenas around town and watch kids play. If you ever got up in front of a crowd and ranted and raved the way you did in your ridiculous post, people would throw garbage at you for being such a fool. What a disaster you are.

Lovely post there bud. Look who the seven year old is, love the personal attacks! Forgot that people can't have different opinions. My bad. My post makes you physically ill that you want to vomit? I think you have issues if that is the case. No one said the players should work for free. They do put their body on the line and need to feed their families and obviously train/work. Would $500 thousand not be enough? A million? You are telling me that being paid $7 million to chase a black puck around the ice is worth more than a police officer or a teacher? You are exactly the type of person I am talking about. People have lost all reality. The sporting landscape is broken and most people don't give a rats ass and continue to feed it instead of trying to fix it. The CFL isn't perfect, but it is the closest to what I believe is fair for a professional athlete. In fact I think they under pay most of their athletes. If players have to sell their own mothers for a $10 million NFL contract than I suppose their greed for money is greater than their family. That is on their conscience. Enjoy forking over $200 for the new Flames third jersey! Chris Butler thanks you!

[taffeyb]

I'll keep supporting them as long as they are playing entertaining hockey. Not sure that I could survive a rebuild under the Sutter era though. The last 2-3 years under Sutter were tough to watch as there was no future...
The question would be how long will I hold onto my season tickets...we only go to 1/2 the games due to commitments to school, extracurricular, etc etc...if we ever reach point where I can't sell the games that we don't attend at my STH price...I may have to give them up.

[lifetimefan]

The answer is yes, the city will support the team.
Perhaps not sellout games every time, though.

Calgary will never be as unsupported as Phoenix or Florida. Even if they get close to that, the league will step in and put them on life support.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Lovely post there bud. Look who the seven year old is, love the personal attacks! Forgot that people can't have different opinions. My bad. My post makes you physically ill that you want to vomit? I think you have issues if that is the case. No one said the players should work for free. They do put their body on the line and need to feed their families and obviously train/work. Would $500 thousand not be enough? A million? You are telling me that being paid $7 million to chase a black puck around the ice is worth more than a police officer or a teacher? You are exactly the type of person I am talking about. People have lost all reality. The sporting landscape is broken and most people don't give a rats ass and continue to feed it instead of trying to fix it. The CFL isn't perfect, but it is the closest to what I believe is fair for a professional athlete. In fact I think they under pay most of their athletes. If players have to sell their own mothers for a $10 million NFL contract than I suppose their greed for money is greater than their family. That is on their conscience. Enjoy forking over $200 for the new Flames third jersey! Chris Butler thanks you!

How long have they trained to be a police officer or a teacher? a few years maybe. These greedy hockey players have trained their entire lives for the most part to get to the level they're at. If any one wants to complain that they're paid too much go see if you can even come a little bit close to what they can do. With a few years commitment I know I could be a teacher or cop but an NHL player not a chance even if I trained my whole life.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In the 90s:

• Calgary was only slowly emerging from a long economic slump by the late 90s. It may be hard for younger people to believe, but this city has a cyclical economy and the downside of those cycles is really bad.
  
• The CDN dollar was at 63 cents U.S. Revenues were in CDN dollars, but expenses were in U.S. dollars. That was a brutal financial handicap.
  
• Given the above two condition, the absence of a salary cap meant the Flames (and Oilers, and Senators) simply couldn't compete with the more affluent teams in the league, or even with mid-market U.S. teams. We had to sell off all our best players because we couldn't afford to sign them.

None of those conditions apply today. The Alberta economy is strong, the CDN dollar is at close to par, and there's a salary cap in place.

As for how losing will affect the fanbase, the business of NHL hockey is very different today than it was 20 years ago. The core business of the Flames is selling expensive boxes and seats to companies, which use them as business shmoozing perks. As long as the oil and gas sector remains strong, those companies will continue to buy tickets, regardless of how well the Flames perform on the ice. Sure, those company tickets might find their way into the hands of the receptionist or payroll clerk more often than before, but that doesn't affect the bottom line of the Flames.

The price of a barrel oil has far more impact on the Flames franchise than the win-loss ratio.

And on top of all of that, the city now has 300-400K more people then we did back in the late 90's. That is a massive factor that most people seem to be overlooking.

[dino7c]

the building is 1/3 full of the other teams fans on some nights so the premium games won't get to those levels but against the weaker draws it could get pretty bleak. I don't think they should go full Oiler and suck for years. Team needs to make some moves at the deadline and use their resources over the summer to turn things around quickly.. Top ticket prices and this type of roster isn't gonna cut it for long

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by RedWinger89

Alright so if they don't finish dead last and continue missing the playoffs, will fans hand out their hard earned money for an inferior product? I say no. I don't blame them either. I know my uncle gave up his tickets and is no longer cheering for the team.

Originally Posted by RedWinger89

Uncle, Cousin, and Brother in Law gave them up. It isn't worth it for them to support an inferior product. Don't blame them.

[Johnny Rotten]

The rebuild will take a few years, even if done right, but I for one, have more optimism now about the future than the past few years.

[Vinny01]

I have only been to a couple of games on the weekends this year and have noticed quite a few empty seats in te dome.

For the most part I think falling just short 3 years in a row really opened the fans up to the idea a rebuild was absolutely necessary. I have no doubt the team will be supported but I honestly think the Flames are going to try to make some moves this summer to compete for the playoffs next year. I hope I am wrong I want to be in the McDavid mix and think a couple years of high picks is necessary to get some key pieces of a contending team