[News] Wideman out 6-8 weeks, Monahan week to week

[l33t_hax0r]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

He is right.

If people would take off the Butler hate goggles they would realize that Butler has been very good since the injury to Gio.

I thought the last two goals last night were both softies according to CP? Guess it is Butler's fault now that he is on the ice.

Since Gio went down:

Flames are 4-10-2
Butler 1G, 3A, -12 in 16 GP (playing an extra 7-8 mins / night compared to normal)

Not saying he's to blame, but I would not call that very good by any stretch of the imagination.

[Ryan Coke]

Phaneuf? You like 3 guys in the league and Phaneuf is one of them?

Hang on, makes sense. Since most people dislike him, of course you'd like him. You must love Steve Ott, Sean Avery, and Alex. Burrows too, right?

[Flames89]

Wideman blocked a shot to his hand about a month ago that looked like it really hurt. Wonder if that also played into it.

[Poe969]

My worry is that this will affect Sven even more and make him disapear since he only seems to have developed chemistry with Monahan. I hope I'm wrong and Sven lights it up while Sean is gone.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flames89

Wideman blocked a shot to his hand about a month ago that looked like it really hurt. Wonder if that also played into it.

He also uses those tiny little mitts, always see his wrists poking out.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

Phaneuf? You like 3 guys in the league and Phaneuf is one of them?

Hang on, makes sense. Since most people dislike him, of course you'd like him. You must love Steve Ott, Sean Avery, and Alex. Burrows too, right?

Or he was a top level prospect for the Flames at a time they didn't have a whole ton of young prospects coming that was easy for a fan to get excited about, especially when said fan is also a huge fan of the WJHC where Dion built up some pretty decent hype.

But enough about Phaneuf.

Sucks that Monahan is hurt. Hopefully he can some back at full strength sooner than later.

Most can guess my feelings about Wideman missing time so I will leave it at that.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Poe969

My worry is that this will affect Sven even more and make him disapear since he only seems to have developed chemistry with Monahan. I hope I'm wrong and Sven lights it up while Sean is gone.

If that is your worry, perhaps Sven is not the player people are hoping he will be.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Poe969

My worry is that this will affect Sven even more and make him disapear since he only seems to have developed chemistry with Monahan. I hope I'm wrong and Sven lights it up while Sean is gone.

Sven was doing better before Monahan joined the team. He has it in him to succeed without Monahan. I guess we'll see if he actually does.

[kyuss275]

As much as it sucks that they are losing Monahan for a wek or so, it's going to give Backlund a chance to show if he belongs with the flames going forward. Without this injury i am not sure Backlund would have gotten off the 4th line.

[goodyear]

is it too late to jump on the Heat bandwagon? #1stplace (green text optional)

Annnnd....I have a Heat jersey!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by l33t_hax0r

Since Gio went down:

Flames are 4-10-2
Butler 1G, 3A, -12 in 16 GP (playing an extra 7-8 mins / night compared to normal)

Not saying he's to blame, but I would not call that very good by any stretch of the imagination.

+/- is a mostly worthless stat. Trying to sum up how a defenseman has played by listing his stats is fairly pointless. Defensemen even more than forwards have to be judged by watching them.

I'm not saying Butler is amazing but your argument against him lacks substance IMO. Stats rarely tell the story for defensemen.

[l33t_hax0r]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

+/- is a mostly worthless stat. Trying to sum up how a defenseman has played by listing his stats is fairly pointless. Defensemen even more than forwards have to be judged by watching them.

I'm not saying Butler is amazing but your argument against him lacks substance IMO. Stats rarely tell the story for defensemen.

Of course it would be silly to rely on opinion or statistics alone. I simply said that statistically speaking, his numbers and the Flames results do not support the suggestion that he's turned it up since Gio went down. I didn't say he was playing poorly, although if we relied on numbers alone it would not look favourable.

If he's bringing some intangibles (leadership, toughness, mentoring) that don't get reflected in his personal stat line, it isn't being reflected in the Flames results in that time either.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Flames89

Wideman blocked a shot to his hand about a month ago that looked like it really hurt. Wonder if that also played into it.

During the game when Wideman blocked the shot, I thought it was broke right away...

I believe this was a fluke but it occured during the Hawks game.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

+/- is a mostly worthless stat. Trying to sum up how a defenseman has played by listing his stats is fairly pointless. Defensemen even more than forwards have to be judged by watching them.

I'm not saying Butler is amazing but your argument against him lacks substance IMO. Stats rarely tell the story for defensemen.

They do when said defenseman sets an NHL record...

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Butler has been pretty good since Gio has been out.

I've said it about twice a year for 14 years of owning this web site ... some players are just targets.

Butler was supposed to be a top four dman, and a key piece of the Regehr trade ... that hasn't happened, and I'll admit that readily.

But once you get your head around the fact that he's a #5 dman, he's played pretty well in a top four role since Giordano has gone down. I'm not going to suggest a 5 year deal and a big raise, but I just don't get the hatred.

It's not money ... at 1.7 he's ranked 6th on the Flames D core in salary.

I just think people wouldn't get as flustered if they judged every player by the role he plays and not against expectations that they were never meant to live up to.

[sa226]

Hopefully Monohan isn't out long term in that it hurts his development.

But I can't help but think that taking a step back and watching from the press box would be good for a rookie in the long grind of an 82 game season

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've said it about twice a year for 14 years of owning this web site ... some players are just targets.

Butler was supposed to be a top four dman, and a key piece of the Regehr trade ... that hasn't happened, and I'll admit that readily.

But once you get your head around the fact that he's a #5 dman, he's played pretty well in a top four role since Giordano has gone down. I'm not going to suggest a 5 year deal and a big raise, but I just don't get the hatred.

It's not money ... at 1.7 he's ranked 6th on the Flames D core in salary.

I just think people wouldn't get as flustered if they judged every player by the role he plays and not against expectations that they were never meant to live up to.

I think this is incredibly wrong.

I am NOT a Butler supporter. I wish the Flames replace him either with another defencemen that moves the puck out better (he is atrocious at his decision making and execution, leading to turnovers) or a more tough and defensively sound defender. He has no strengths to his game (except for lately becoming a good shot-blocker), and his hockey IQ keeps him from developing. He is filling in for Giordano admirably, but he still makes more than a fair share of boneheaded plays. Moving forward, one of the kids on the farm should be taking his 5/6 job next season (you would assume one would more than likely be ready to transition there), and if not - find someone else with more tools back there who can improve or provide leadership.

With that being said, it is actually quite frustrating having posters who are more 'pro' Butler making the leap that because posters like myself don't like Butler, it is because we expected too much in return for Regehr. This makes anyone who is not a Butler supporter seem short-sighted... perhaps dim-witted?

To clarify, AT NO TIME did I ever expect Butler to fill Regehr's shoes - including the moments after the trade was announced (this is why I hated the trade in the first place). Still, I gave it a chance after my anger subsided. Patiently watched him play for the first months, and noted the above.

My expectations would be to see a younger defencemen improve. That is not happening. His first pass is still not good - both in execution and decision making. Has not developed a better defensive game. Has not developed any offence. Doesn't seem to be a useful mentor of any kind. Hasn't developed any mean-streak or shown a willingness to defend teammates/goalie. Hasn't developed a shot. Has not become a defensive stalwart. Only thing he has developed is a shot-blocking ability, and if there is anyone on the team I want blocking shots it is him.

That is why I don't like Butler (though I do not 'hate' him). It has ZERO to do with Regehr.

Also, every fan's expectations can change. I doubt that anyone at all on these forums dislike Butler because of their expectations regarding that trade. I would think that by now, everyone would have different expectations based on what they have seen in the last few seasons, wouldn't you think?

My expectations for Bouwmeester was huge when the Flames first signed him. I learned to hate him. Suddenly his play improved last season, and I loved him - even though I had originally expected much more than he showed even last season.

Regehr has nothing to do with Butler on this team. This is not a reasonable argument any longer into the third season post-trade. Butler just has no real strengths or upside, and has low skill and IQ. He just isn't someone you re-sign during a rebuild as he will get pushed out very soon.

[Street Pharmacist]

Yeah. I don't care what the expectations are. With the exception of a few games this year, he's been terrible. Not terrible compared to my expectations (which weren't high), but terrible as an NHL defender. I'm not sure how to be more clear on that. It has nothing to do with any other player's ability, current or former. He's just bad.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Funny, I typed up that schedule for the next 13-14 games and didn't even realize that Iginla is back in Calgary and that Calgary visits him in Boston this month. Just realized it when I heard Iggy talking to Pierre Mcguire in the pregame for the Bruins-Ranges game today.

Can't wait to see the crowd react to Iginla when he's back in town.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've said it about twice a year for 14 years of owning this web site ... some players are just targets.

Butler was supposed to be a top four dman, and a key piece of the Regehr trade ... that hasn't happened, and I'll admit that readily.

But once you get your head around the fact that he's a #5 dman, he's played pretty well in a top four role since Giordano has gone down. I'm not going to suggest a 5 year deal and a big raise, but I just don't get the hatred.

It's not money ... at 1.7 he's ranked 6th on the Flames D core in salary.

I just think people wouldn't get as flustered if they judged every player by the role he plays and not against expectations that they were never meant to live up to.

You can't say Butler is an effective 5/6 dman either. He is just as bad when he is playing on the bottom pairing. Butler/SOB pairing was just terrible to start the season

So what is the point of having a guy who is over his head playing big minutes and is even worse playing his role?

I actually liked Butler because his skill set on paper looks great, but he has to go regardless of his salary