[Rumour] Dreger: Backlund is available. Garrioch: Shane O'Brien available too

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I so love how fans have selective memories about Brent's tenure. It's common to see posters say that Brent got nothing out of players but examining exactly what happened tells the complete opposite for most players.

I believe he would have made the playoffs that first season but halfway through that season his brother made two trades that started the official downfall of the organization on that fateful January weekend. That roster was such a mess after the Phaneuf and Jokinen trade that I don't think Bowman could have patched something together.

Lets not forget that Iginla finished 2nd in goals and 6th in points in 2010 under Brent which was his last great season before age started catching up with him and that Kipper had two of his best regular seasons ever with 2.3 GAA and .920 sv both seasons under Brent. It's more telling of a supporting cast that simply wasn't very good after Darrly went crazy that fateful weekend. Brent still managed to have the team in the playoff race down to the wire every season despite having to deal with major issues above him with his brother getting fired and the guy replacing him waiting eagerly to hire his buddy. Again I have stats to back up my defense not just common CP hearsay.

But his job was to take this team and have success with it. He didn't do it. You can argue all you want about how the situation wasn't favourable for him, but he still failed. Dave Tippet has managed to have team success despite a weak roster, despite the threat of the team moving, despite Doan and other key players aging. Iginla was in his prime as one of the great players in the game. Why does Brent get credit for having a hall of fame player on his roster that played like a hall of fame player?

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Jokinen had a strong final year, Brodie made inroads, Smith prior to his injury looked like a find. Heck even Iginla and Kipper had great seasons under Brent. The fact is that the only players that didn't really flourish were the ones you listed. Anyway carry on bringing down the collective IQ of this website spouting how Brent Sutter is a terrible coach.

He isn't a terrible coach but for whatever reason did a crappy job while he was here. Some guys are just wired for junior coaching and can't change the message.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

Yeah he was...you have short term memory loss or just dislike Hartley that bad?

It appears you have short term memory loss as I made my case. You keep just saying over and over he was bad but that doesn't mean you are right.

[BigFlameDog]

Holy Cow Erick, what are you arguing here....who gives a crap about stats? He didn't make the playoffs 3 years in a row with Kipper, Iginla, Bouwmeester etc. Who cares if Joe Puck led the league in scoring, hitting and fire and ice girls.

I concede that both Sutter's contributed to it but he was the coach on record who couldn't get everyone pulling on the same rope. End of story.

Doesn't mean he sucks (obviously he is an awesome junior coach and I still like him a lot as a coach)....just means he sucked here.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It appears you have short term memory loss as I made my case. You keep just saying over and over he was bad but that doesn't mean you are right.

Nothing is black and white. Of course there were some good things that Brent did. He had the right intentions. But he was brought in to push this team to further success which he failed to do. It really is as simple as that. I know we all look back and laugh at the roster, but it really wasn't that bad. It wasn't a cup contender by any means, but it could have been a playoff team, especially when you consider that in two of those years the team was in a playoff spot at the trade deadline and fizzled miserably down the stretch to miss. That totally falls on the coach. Also in two of those years, the team started badly which put them in a situation where they had to catch up. I would argue that that also falls on the coach.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It appears you have short term memory loss as I made my case. You keep just saying over and over he was bad but that doesn't mean you are right.

I was actually a big defender of his but hindsight does help sometimes.

He just couldn't get everyone going the right direction and that was his job. Disaster is over stating it so I take that back, but he did not do a good job here and that is undeniable.

And I only said that once, not over and over. I don't think he is a bad coach, he was just not good here and I'm sure he will learn from it and be back in the league one day.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

But his job was to take this team and have success with it. He didn't do it. You can argue all you want about how the situation wasn't favourable for him, but he still failed. Dave Tippet has managed to have team success despite a weak roster, despite the threat of the team moving, despite Doan and other key players aging. Iginla was in his prime as one of the great players in the game. Why does Brent get credit for having a hall of fame player on his roster that played like a hall of fame player?

I think Dave Tippet is possibly the best overall head coach in the NHL so that's not exactly a fair comparison as Brent is good but not in that echelon and lets not forget that Tippet was available that summer that Darryl hired Brent.

I still believe that the biggest obstacle during Brent's tenure was Iginla and Brent ultimately lost that battle. Since Iginla's last great season under Brent his career has nosedived and it's telling of how hard it was for Brent to try and win when his best forward and captain was on a steep decline that everyone could see except Flames management and ownership.

[edslunch]

I will upgrade my opinion of him to what our advanced stats friends call replacement level. You could have swapped him with any number of coaches and gotten the same or better results. Is he single-handedly responsible for the Flames missing the playoffs - no. But did he form a band of misfits into a plucky overachieving near playoff team - lol! To me he epitomizes three wasted years

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

Nothing is black and white. Of course there were some good things that Brent did. He had the right intentions. But he was brought in to push this team to further success which he failed to do. It really is as simple as that. I know we all look back and laugh at the roster, but it really wasn't that bad. It wasn't a cup contender by any means, but it could have been a playoff team, especially when you consider that in two of those years the team was in a playoff spot at the trade deadline and fizzled miserably down the stretch to miss. That totally falls on the coach. Also in two of those years, the team started badly which put them in a situation where they had to catch up. I would argue that that also falls on the coach.

I agree with the bold, that is what made it so frustrating...sometimes you could see what they could be and it made it that much worse when they crapped the bed constantly.

If he could have figured out how to get them going more consistantly it would have been a much better result. It probably had a lot to do with the dressing room but it was his job to figure that out.

There is a reason they get paid big coin and us Novice coaches get nothing...it is a tough job.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think Dave Tippet is possibly the best overall head coach in the NHL so that's not exactly a fair comparison as Brent is good but not in that echelon and lets not forget that Tippet was available that summer that Darryl hired Brent.

I still believe that the biggest obstacle during Brent's tenure was Iginla and Brent ultimately lost that battle. Since Iginla's last great season under Brent his career has nosedived and it's telling of how hard it was for Brent to try and win when his best forward and captain was on a steep decline that everyone could see except Flames management and ownership.

I don't disagree with you. I think you are right on both counts. But ultimately that means Brent failed as a coach of this team. His job was to get the team to play together with Iginla. Does management deserve criticism for not finding some better support players? Yes. But Brent still failed to get the most of the team. Especially when you consider that Kiprusoff stole them a handful of games evry year to make their record look better that it was.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think Dave Tippet is possibly the best overall head coach in the NHL so that's not exactly a fair comparison as Brent is good but not in that echelon and lets not forget that Tippet was available that summer that Darryl hired Brent.

I still believe that the biggest obstacle during Brent's tenure was Iginla and Brent ultimately lost that battle. Since Iginla's last great season under Brent his career has nosedived and it's telling of how hard it was for Brent to try and win when his best forward and captain was on a steep decline that everyone could see except Flames management and ownership.

I think you are probably right there....old dog was the top dog and didn't want to learn new tricks.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

I don't disagree with you. I think you are right on both counts. But ultimately that means Brent failed as a coach of this team. His job was to get the team to play together with Iginla. Does management deserve criticism for not finding some better support players? Yes. But Brent still failed to get the most of the team. Especially when you consider that Kiprusoff stole them a handful of games evry year to make their record look better that it was.

Agreed. Brent's biggest failing was that he couldn't get Iginla to buy in but to be fair Hartley also found out last season that Iginla had become bigger than the team. Iginla had no organizational power in Pittsburgh so it was easy for Blysma to demote him when he freelanced but no Calgary Flames coach either had the stones or was allowed to put him in his place since Darryl Sutter was the head coach.

[Wood]

Dreger said on TSN Carolina has made an offer for Backlund

[codynw]

Poor Backlund, might have to live in Carolina...

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Wood

Dreger said on TSN Carolina has made an offer for Backlund

I was gonna say... What's goin on with Backlund and SOB??

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by codynw

Poor Backlund, might have to live in Carolina...

In Carolina, he's exotic. In Calgary, he's just underachieving.

[MissTeeks]

Originally Posted by Wood

Dreger said on TSN Carolina has made an offer for Backlund

Hey, quit interrupting the Sutter feud, for the sixth hundreth time.

[nik-]

Backlund for Lindholm?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by nik-

Backlund for Lindholm?

More like they offered Tlutsy . .

No thank you.

[EYE_Overstand]

hahaha going through the Hurricanes Prospects list i found out that they have a prospect by the Name of "Michal Jordan"… awesome!

haha.

on a side note, besides Ryan Murphy and Lindholm, i don't know much about their prospect pool