[Rumour] Dreger: Backlund is available. Garrioch: Shane O'Brien available too

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Itse

Sounds like a clean slate could do him some good. Which is not a criticism on him or Hartley / the Flames. It is what it is.

Possibly a slight criticism of Brent Sutter, who I think actually did misuse Backlund to some extent.

Did Sutter use anyone properly? What a disaster of a coach

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by C_of_Red28

its way too early to trade for this guy.. let him develop with the kids.. Depth is key for the future...

The only problem with this is that if we let him develp and he doesn't really develop into anything more than what he is, his trade value decreases significantly. He hasn't shown that he can do much so far in the NHL but because he was drafted by the Flames, everyone loves this guy. If he's traded now, he has decent value because other teams see him as a "project" with potential who could turn out to be a decent player. He won't do that here, not with our coaching staff and not with the way they're treating him. If we can cash in and get decent value for him then we should. If he turns out to be a really good player then good for him because that won't happen here. I just think that at this point, trading Backlund is the best situation for everyone. Playing on the third or fourth line isn't helping him and its not helping the team.

As much as some hat to say it; sometimes change for the sake of change is a good thing

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Did Sutter use anyone properly? What a disaster of a coach

What league do you coach in?

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

What league do you coach in?

Seriously? I don't agree with the guy either but asking "what league do you coach in" is like saying that because none of us are in the NHL we can't critisize any players.

[Badgers Nose]

So does Feaster have stage fright or what? I thought we already negotiated this trade for him and everything! Backlund for Connelly, SOB for MDZ. LOL

Add me to the chorus: I'd prefer to see Backlund stay on the wing also. I can understand the reason for trading him, I don't really agree with it, but it's hard to imagine Flames will get anything interesting in return.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Itse

Sounds like a clean slate could do him some good. Which is not a criticism on him or Hartley / the Flames. It is what it is.

Possibly a slight criticism of Brent Sutter, who I think actually did misuse Backlund to some extent.

Brent Sutter expected Backlund to play better defensively. Sutter misused him.

Bob Hartley expects Sven to play better defensively. Hartley's a genius.

Originally Posted by edslunch

Did Sutter use anyone properly? What a disaster of a coach

Brent Sutter got three straight 90+ point years out of a mediocre Flames club.

Bob Harley gets top 10 draft picks out of a mediocre Flames club.

Yes Brent Sutter was a disaster indeed.

[edslunch]

Brent Sutter missed the playoffs for three years. By all accounts on CP he force fit Phaneuf and Regher (we know how that turned out), stifled Bouwmeester, misused Stajan, didn't help develop any talent including Backlund and I struggle to identify a player who he got the most out of. Maybe disaster is too strong a word but please convince me his impact on the organization was anything more than poor.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Brent Sutter missed the playoffs for three years. By all accounts on CP he force fit Phaneuf and Regher (we know how that turned out), stifled Bouwmeester, misused Stajan, didn't help develop any talent including Backlund and I struggle to identify a player who he got the most out of. Maybe disaster is too strong a word but please convince me his impact on the organization was anything more than poor.

No, I think disaster is fitting.

I think you could argue he helped Giordano and Glencross develop...but they were already on the upswing before he came to town.

[taxbuster]

I keep hoping for Backs -- to me his problem is really weight/size/strength, not his overall ability. He (like many other Flames) gets pushed off the puck too easily by bigger guys. But he doesn't seem to have the hand speed to recover from that. Some guys get bounced, but their hand speed is fast enough to recover the puck and continue. Backs just doesn't seem to be there. I feel bad for the guy (OK - not too bad, he's making pretty good bucks, so it sort of stops there), but in the NHL it's a different story - you carve out a place for yourself or you slowly disappear.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Seriously? I don't agree with the guy either but asking "what league do you coach in" is like saying that because none of us are in the NHL we can't critisize any players.

Yes you are right, but the coach is the easy way out.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Yes you are right, but the coach is the easy way out.

Agreed. I think Backlund is responsible for his play and if he wants to be treated like a better player, he has to play better.

Backlund hasn't shown any signs of improvement and I think a change will benefit him and could benefit the Flames if a decent trade is worked out.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Brent Sutter expected Backlund to play better defensively. Sutter misused him.

Bob Hartley expects Sven to play better defensively. Hartley's a genius.



Brent Sutter got three straight 90+ point years out of a mediocre Flames club.

Bob Harley gets top 10 draft picks out of a mediocre Flames club.

Yes Brent Sutter was a disaster indeed.

He also had three years of Kiprusoff, three years of a younger Iginla, and a blue line that started out with Phaneuf, Bouw, Giordano, and Regehr. To not make the playoffs even one year over a three year stint is a massive failure. How is it possible to even argue that Sutter did a good job?

Hartley has overseen a team going through a massive change. Whether or not he is a good coach of a contending team is irrelevant as that is not the position the team is in. The two coaches have completely different situations so it is not relevant to compare the results of the team under their watch.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Brent Sutter missed the playoffs for three years. By all accounts on CP he force fit Phaneuf and Regher (we know how that turned out), stifled Bouwmeester, misused Stajan, didn't help develop any talent including Backlund and I struggle to identify a player who he got the most out of. Maybe disaster is too strong a word but please convince me his impact on the organization was anything more than poor.

Jokinen had a strong final year, Brodie made inroads, Smith prior to his injury looked like a find. Heck even Iginla and Kipper had great seasons under Brent. The fact is that the only players that didn't really flourish were the ones you listed. Anyway carry on bringing down the collective IQ of this website spouting how Brent Sutter is a terrible coach.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Jokinen had a strong final year, Brodie made inroads, Smith prior to his injury looked like a find. Heck even Iginla and Kipper had great seasons under Brent. The fact is that the only players that didn't really flourish were the ones you listed. Anyway carry on bringing down the collective IQ of this website spouting how Brent Sutter is a terrible coach.

Brent's Flames were an underachieving mess and he created a sour atmosphere that sucked the life out of the players and the fans.

[Vinny01]

The Flames do not have many expendable cheap young pieces on their team. Backlund is one of them and at this point is worth seeing what he can get.
The Flames have tons of cap space and are in such a position to win this trade. Backlund comes cheap, he comes with another year on his deal and will still be a RFA at the end of the contract. He also has proven to be a fairly solid defensive player and does have some offensive upside. A team trading for him might think he has potential to turn it around.

I have stated a couple times in this thread that the Flames need to use this trade chip and cap space as assets together in order to bring in a more expensive albeit better player. Chris Butler was a mediocre 24 year old 5/6 Dman for the Sabres, Paul Byron was a small AHL forward that showed he can score in that league. They turned those assets into a proven top 4 shutdown D, 1 year of a bad contract, and a 2nd round pick. Similar deals got the Canucks Erhoff and the Leafs Franson. The Flames need to use Backlund in a similar way to fleece a team looking for cap relief. There is no way they should lose this deal at least in the short term.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

What league do you coach in?

Honestly I had high hopes and expectations for Sutter and defended him until about halfway through his final season....for the life of me I can't figure out why he sucked so bad in Calgary. Not looking to list his mistakes...just wonder why he couldn't adapt.

I wonder if he just couldn't change his junior mentality.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Jokinen had a strong final year, Brodie made inroads, Smith prior to his injury looked like a find. Heck even Iginla and Kipper had great seasons under Brent. The fact is that the only players that didn't really flourish were the ones you listed. Anyway carry on bringing down the collective IQ of this website spouting how Brent Sutter is a terrible coach.

Maybe in another situation he would be a great coach. But his time here was a failure. No doubt about it. Teams with lesser roasters have had more success in the last few years than the Flames during his tenure. Was this a team that was on the downturn? Sure, but he didn't succeed in elevating it as a collective of more than the sum of its parts, which is really what a coach is expected to do. A coach can't control individual players, but he can create a situation where a group of players share a collective success, and he didn't do that.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

He also had three years of Kiprusoff, three years of a younger Iginla, and a blue line that started out with Phaneuf, Bouw, Giordano, and Regehr. To not make the playoffs even one year over a three year stint is a massive failure. How is it possible to even argue that Sutter did a good job?

I so love how fans have selective memories about Brent's tenure. It's common to see posters say that Brent got nothing out of players but examining exactly what happened tells the complete opposite for most players.

I believe he would have made the playoffs that first season but halfway through that season his brother made two trades that started the official downfall of the organization on that fateful January weekend. That roster was such a mess after the Phaneuf and Jokinen trade that I don't think Bowman could have patched something together.

Lets not forget that Iginla finished 2nd in goals and 6th in points in 2010 under Brent which was his last great season before age started catching up with him and that Kipper had two of his best regular seasons ever with 2.3 GAA and .920 sv both seasons under Brent. It's more telling of a supporting cast that simply wasn't very good after Darrly went crazy that fateful weekend. Brent still managed to have the team in the playoff race down to the wire every season despite having to deal with major issues above him with his brother getting fired and the guy replacing him waiting eagerly to hire his buddy. Again I have stats to back up my defense not just common CP hearsay.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes Brent Sutter was a disaster indeed.

Yeah he was...you have short term memory loss or just dislike Hartley that bad?

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Jokinen had a strong final year, Brodie made inroads, Smith prior to his injury looked like a find. Heck even Iginla and Kipper had great seasons under Brent. The fact is that the only players that didn't really flourish were the ones you listed. Anyway carry on bringing down the collective IQ of this website spouting how Brent Sutter is a terrible coach.

If those players had such great success, why didn't that translate into wins? Players should get the credit for playing well. Coaches, in situations where the team is fielding a competitive team, should get credit for team success. That was a team loaded with veterans. It is expected that they play well, he doesn't get credit for that.