Calgary mother relied on herbal remedies: son died, mother charged

[FlamesAddiction]

According to this site: http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical.../kawasaki.html

They say you need to treat it within 10 days in order to prevent complications. It also says that the child will get a fever for 5 straight days. I think if a child has a fever for more than a couple of days, you should probably be going to the hospital no matter what.

[undercoverbrother]

Does the city of Calgary still have health link?

In the early days if parenting I phone that tonnes. Very helpful and professional.

A perfect resource for new and scared/worried/confused parents.

I am know it avoided useless/wasteful trips to the doctor for us.

[Minnie]

Yep, it's still active. I've used it before. It's great.

Toll-free: 1-866-408-5465 (LINK)
Edmonton: 780-408-5465 (LINK)
Calgary: 403-943-5465 (LINK)

[Enoch Root]

Maybe it's better understood and treated now. My memory is bad but I am pretty certain it wasn't around 1% 20 years ago. Could be wrong though.

Anyway, thanks for that update, Itse

[Yellefan]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Does the city of Calgary still have health link?

In the early days if parenting I phone that tonnes. Very helpful and professional.

A perfect resource for new and scared/worried/confused parents.

I am know it avoided useless/wasteful trips to the doctor for us.

I've used it a few times but they annoy me because every time they tell me to take my kid to the Children's Hospital within 4 hours. That's why I'm calling you because I don't want to take my kid to wait in an emergency waiting room for 2 hours. Every time has ended up being a useless/wasteful trip to the emergency room so I don't call them anymore.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Yellefan

I've used it a few times but they annoy me because every time they tell me to take my kid to the Children's Hospital within 4 hours. That's why I'm calling you because I don't want to take my kid to wait in an emergency waiting room for 2 hours. Every time has ended up being a useless/wasteful trip to the emergency room so I don't call them anymore.

I've had similar experiences. They seem to lean towards the cautious approach, presumably because they don't actually see the patient and want to play it safe. They can give good advice, but if your question is whether or not to see a doctor they're generally going to tell you to go to the doctor or hospital.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Minnie

What a shame he had to die.

The whole reason for the charges is that he didn't have to die, which is the real shame imo.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

I've had similar experiences. They seem to lean towards the cautious approach, presumably because they don't actually see the patient and want to play it safe. They can give good advice, but if your question is whether or not to see a doctor they're generally going to tell you to go to the doctor or hospital.

Call a Pharmacist. At least they will often take the time to explain why you need to go...


Edit: I used to answer for healthlink

[Igster]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The doctors at Children's, most of whom had also never seen a case of it before (my daughter was the 6th case ever in Manitoba), were amazed that this doctor recognized it at the early level it was at. He literally saved her life.

Doctors like this need to receive more attention and certainly some recognition. Most medi-clinic type doctors would have sent you on your way based on the experiences I've had over the past few years. I sure hope this doctor receives some recognition for this catch.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Call a Pharmacist. At least they will often take the time to explain why you need to go...


Edit: I used to answer for healthlink

Is this type of training standard in school for Pharmacists or is it OJT?

Also, what are the insurance implications for providing this information, not when working on the health link, but when working in your capacity as a pharmacist?

[Bill Bumface]

Back on the antibiotic thing, I've had so many experiences where I have bronchitis and it's not going away, so I go in. Then a doctor barely looks at me, writes a prescription for anitbiotics, even though I believe bronchitis is viral over 90% of the time.

Then you get people that say "Yeah, they gave me antibiotics but I got better right away so it must not have been bacterial, so I stopped taking them"

Thanks for the superbugs, jerks!

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Is this type of training standard in school for Pharmacists or is it OJT?

Also, what are the insurance implications for providing this information, not when working on the health link, but when working in your capacity as a pharmacist?

It's not only part of our schooling, it's part of our examination. Pharmacists have the same perquisites to the program as medicine and it's as long as medicine. The key difference is residency and specializations with medicine take longer. Otherwise length is the same. I just mention that because I don't think many people realize the length and level of education a Pharmacist has.

As for liability, it is full liability, same as any other health care professional whether on healthlink or not

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Back on the antibiotic thing, I've had so many experiences where I have bronchitis and it's not going away, so I go in. Then a doctor barely looks at me, writes a prescription for anitbiotics, even though I believe bronchitis is viral over 90% of the time.

Then you get people that say "Yeah, they gave me antibiotics but I got better right away so it must not have been bacterial, so I stopped taking them"

Thanks for the superbugs, jerks!

In a healthy person, bronchitis is virtually never bacterial, and should not be treated as such.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's not only part of our schooling, it's part of our examination. Pharmacists have the same perquisites to the program as medicine and it's as long as medicine. The key difference is residency and specializations with medicine take longer. Otherwise length is the same. I just mention that because I don't think many people realize the length and level of education a Pharmacist has.

As for liability, it is full liability, same as any other health care professional whether on healthlink or not

Thanks, I honestly didn't know that.

So you take medical diagnostic classes?

[You Need a Thneed]

Last winter, all four of us in our family had strep together all at once. My wife got it first, and it got pretty bad, so she went into the clinic. The next day, as my daughter's throat was getting sore, and my voice was getting a little scratchy, we decided that I should go in, and take my son along, even though he hadn't shown any symptoms yet. Sure enough, we all had it too. There wasn't any swabbing done, the doctor said she could tell that it was bacterial.

My throat was just starting to get scratchy, and the doctor could see it right away, I can't imagine what my wife's looked like as she was hoping someone would just cut her throat out.


I can understand being a little hesitant about when to go see a doctor. Sometimes things don't seem too bad, but are actually worse them they seem, and sometimes things appear bad, but aren't really that worrisome.

For example, my son has had three episode of Febrile Seizures. The first time, my wife was out shopping, and I was terrified. I called 911, and we went by ambulance (non rush) to the Children's hospital. We thought we heard the doctor say that if it happened again, to take him in. So, the second episode, I drove him into the hospital to get checked, and the doctor said (nicely), that it probably wasn't necessary to take him in, unless it was noticablely worse, or something to that extent. The third time, he didn't regain consciousness for around 15 minutes after the seizure was over (though his heart and breathing were fine), so we called Healthlink, and the nurse recommended we call 911, so we did that. Non rush ambulance ride in again, mostly to tell us in the end that it wasn't really anything to worry about.

Thank goodness that such seizures aren't serious, and that my benefits cover ambulance rides.

Another thing I can think of where one might be considering a doctor's visit when one isn't necessary is sporadic breathing in newborns. One night, when our daughter was a month or two old, she was sleeping in her playpen, but her breathing wasn't smooth. It was, take a couple breaths, then not breathe for 10-15 seconds, take a couple quick breaths, etc. A little nerve racking, but I did an internet search, and found that this is quite normal, and doctors might be more worried if it doesn't happen. An internet search probably saved us a worried hospital trip that time.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Thanks, I honestly didn't know that.

So you take medical diagnostic classes?

We only assess to a point. Essentially, we assess for "red flags" that should be seen by a Dr.

A community based Pharmacist's proficiencies are in medication management and self treatment of minor ailments. It's our job to determine if it's a minor ailment out possibly worse. In fact, recently Saskatchewan gave Pharmacists the ability to prescribe for specific minor ailments

[rayne008]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

We only assess to a point. Essentially, we assess for "red flags" that should be seen by a Dr.

A community based Pharmacist's proficiencies are in medication management and self treatment of minor ailments. It's our job to determine if it's a minor ailment out possibly worse. In fact, recently Saskatchewan gave Pharmacists the ability to prescribe for specific minor ailments

In your experience, is the medical community behind granting Pharmacists the ability to write prescriptions? Or is there a doctor / pharmacist divide on this issue?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by rayne008

In your experience, is the medical community behind granting Pharmacists the ability to write prescriptions? Or is there a doctor / pharmacist divide on this issue?

Individually there's mixed opinions. As an association, the BCMA was very vocal against it.

There are fewer healthcare dollars to spend and everyone wants their piece.

Alberta already has initial access prescribing, where certified Pharmacists (difficult process and they're aren't many) can prescribe for any ailment that fails within their competency. I'm not too familiar with it, as only Alberta has this.

BC has Pharmacists being allowed to adapt or renew prescriptions, but due to input from the BCMA it is very limited in scope and usefulness.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Individually there's mixed opinions. As an association, the BCMA was very vocal against it.

There are fewer healthcare dollars to spend and everyone wants their piece.

Alberta already has initial access prescribing, where certified Pharmacists (difficult process and they're aren't many) can prescribe for any ailment that fails within their competency. I'm not too familiar with it, as only Alberta has this.

BC has Pharmacists being allowed to adapt or renew prescriptions, but due to input from the BCMA it is very limited in scope and usefulness.

You can also provide a refill on current medications in certain conditions, no?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

You can also provide a refill on current medications in certain conditions, no?

That is a renewal, yes.