Reto Berra vs. Karri Ramo

[shogged]

I like berras rebound control over ramo by leaps and bounds. The team speaks highly of Berra as well so I'm sure that is a factor.

I personally wouldn't mind a play until you lose rotation but Berra has been playing well even in some of his losses. I'll trust Hartley on this one.

I do sometimes wonder what berras stats would be with a better defensive core in front of him though. We might not even be having this conversation.

[OzSome]

Potentially there are a lot of upsides on Reto Berra's play. He actually plays well most of the time but he tends to messed up at the wrong time though. With Kari Ramo, i haven't seen much to get a good read on him. All i can see for now is Berra is a lot quicker and more acrobatic than Ramo. I don't have any preference right now on who should be the starting goaltender, i just hope Hartley gives them equal chances though.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by shogged

I like berras rebound control over ramo by leaps and bounds. The team speaks highly of Berra as well so I'm sure that is a factor.

I personally wouldn't mind a play until you lose rotation but Berra has been playing well even in some of his losses. I'll trust Hartley on this one.

I do sometimes wonder what berras stats would be with a better defensive core in front of him though. We might not even be having this conversation.

OUtside of the 5-6 slots on the D-corps I'm pretty content with what the Flames have. Outside of Missing Gio and maybe adding one more good young D-man I really don't think there much more the Flames need to do back there.

When Russell and Wideman are paired together they are very good. They make great line mates. Gio and Brodie are another solid pairing. Add Smid to (hopefully as I think it would be a good thing) someone like Gardiner and there really not much more they should do.

It's no Pronger Neidermeyer pairing but it's a solid foundation for a D-corps.

Just need to rid themselves of SOB and Butler.

With that said, Berra needs to reel it in fast. He's big, fast and crazy flexible. His overcompensation on international ice was masked well because he had time to recover. He cannot do that in the NHL. The D-men in front of him don't have too much to do with it. The thing with Kipper was he kicked the puck and re-directed it at will and to exactly where he wanted to go. Berra did that a bit in the third last night then went wild again. Kipper needs to come in a coach this kid. Sorry, I sidetracked my thoughts.

Kipper, come and give this Berra kid some pointers.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

Lindback, Markstrom and Nabokov are all terrible goaltenders.

Unlike Berra Anderson, Fasth and Backstrom all have histories of good play that allow them a little more leeway to think this is a blip but if they continue like this all year then yes they would be terrible goalies as well.

None of them are terrible goaltenders. Again, terrible means "extremely bad."

Is the difference between the most elite goaltenders current or past in the NHL and the "extremely bad" goaltenders really 2 or 3 goals out of every 100 shots?

Rhetorical question. Just keep throwing around terrible and mediocre interchangeably if that is what makes you happy.

[moon]

Originally Posted by strombad

None of them are terrible goaltenders. Again, terrible means "extremely bad."

Is the difference between the most elite goaltenders current or past in the NHL and the "extremely bad" goaltenders really 2 or 3 goals out of every 100 shots?

Rhetorical question. Just keep throwing around terrible and mediocre interchangeably if that is what makes you happy.

It makes me very happy.

And those guys are extremely bad.

There are roughly 60 goalies in the NHL starters and back-ups and those guys are in the 50's in terms of ranking the goalies. That is extremely bad in my view.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by moon

It makes me very happy.

You've never been happy.

Kidding of course

[Magnum PEI]

I think it's pretty obvious Berra has played a bit better than Ramo. But he has let in some squeakers the last few games. I'd like to see Ramo get the Chicago start.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

It makes me very happy.

And those guys are extremely bad.

There are roughly 60 goalies in the NHL starters and back-ups and those guys are in the 50's in terms of ranking the goalies. That is extremely bad in my view.

Well, by definition they are not extremely bad.
Just because you qualify "in my view" doesn't mean you get a free pass.

It just means your view is wrong.

[Roof-Daddy]

I don't think any of our goalies have been very good this year, but IMO Berra has shown the most promise.

I had high hopes for Ramo, but he is just plain scary to me. Maybe he'll improve as the season continues.



Anyways, don't look now folks but Ortio just put up his 1st AHL shut out tonight, and is now 9-0-0 with the Heat this season.

2.20 GAA and a 0.930 save %

[Gaskal]

With goalies fairly new to the NHL, especially goalies that are used to bigger ice (and playing on a ####ty team with ####ty defence in front of them) I think it's much more appropriate to look at their performance in terms of athletic ability, hockey IQ, and composure. Stats will be a bit skewed.

Some areas to work on for Berra, for example:
-Keep your cool in the 3rd
-Don't overcommit to shots
-Rebound control

It's far too early IMO to cast a proper judgement on Ramo or Berra based on stats alone, under all those circumstances.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Who knows what Ramo can do. He has had 1 start in the last 10 games. Even Kipper didn't start 9 out of 10 games.

Berra is getting the starts despite a series of soft goals and bad performances.

Hartley likes Berra. He doesn't like Ramo. Ramo won't get the starts.

Personally I think that Berra is the better goalies. But I would like to see Ramo get some starts to give him a chance. It isn't like Berra is earning all of these starts.

Especially after Lord Feaster assured us he was this years: "best player not playing in the KHL"

Can't understand the staple to the bench on a team that isn't fighting for anything.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by strombad

Well, by definition they are not extremely bad.
Just because you qualify "in my view" doesn't mean you get a free pass.

It just means your view is wrong.

Oh goodie, THIS conversation again.

When we're talking about NHL players, and comparing them to other NHL players, and discussing their performance in the NHL, I would think its to be expected that we're comparing their abilities to other NHL players. .

But of yu're going to insist on being obtuse, you can just go ahead assume that any qualitative description of an NHL player is followed by the statement "when compared to other NHL players".

Other people can understand that from context, but if you need it spelled out for you, there you go.

[Redrum]

It's pretty clear to me that Berra is the most talented. The other goalies have the same negatives like letting a softy or 2 a game but without any sign of that game stealing ability. Berra also has much better rebound control and puck handling than either of the other two. My main concern is he seems to lose the puck and has trouble with traffic. I've actually been really disappointed from what I've seen from Ramo so far. He just doesn't look like a talented goaltender.

[PeteMoss]

if they both equally suck, than the fact that Berra is good in the shootout is the advantage and the reason to play him. If they are both going to let in the same amount of goals... might as well play the one who will the games that end up in a shootout.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Oh goodie, THIS conversation again.

When we're talking about NHL players, and comparing them to other NHL players, and discussing their performance in the NHL, I would think its to be expected that we're comparing their abilities to other NHL players. .

But of yu're going to insist on being obtuse, you can just go ahead assume that any qualitative description of an NHL player is followed by the statement "when compared to other NHL players".

Other people can understand that from context, but if you need it spelled out for you, there you go.

We can go back and forth all you'd like, but in relative comparison to other NHL goaltenders that have played games this season, Berra does not fit into the definition of terrible, and you sound both silly and pompous when you ridicule someone (even if it's moon) over the use of a world that doesn't actually fit, followed directly by using a word that doesn't actually fit.

Berra has been below average, poor, not good. But terrible? Sure, perhaps if you're teenager girl who regularly utters phrases like "OMG it was literally like the WORST thing ever!"... then yes, I'd expect you to say Berra is a terrible NHL goaltender.

Again, if you're going to criticise the use of a word, don't use an equally ignorant word in it's place.

Other people seem to be able to understand that without having it spelt out for them, but there you go, just for you.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I'm not a huge fan of either goalie so far. Berra has looked much better in the past couple shootouts than he did in his first, and has made some big saves, but has also let in a bunch of stinkers along the way. He has potential, but his rebound control is pretty scary.

Ramo has been average at best when he's played, but it's been so long since I've seen him that it would be nice to see him play again to compare the two.

Berra has more raw potential IMO, and I see why the Flames keep playing him to see what they've got before the end of the season. But at some time Ramo needs a chance to play again, hopefully it's sooner than later. I'd like to see them split duties a bit more from here on out.

[FAN]

Berra hasn't been great but he obviously has potential. Absent other moves, the team can surely give him a trial by fire this year and see how the does by the end of this season. Bringing him back next season is going to be easy and affordable.

As for Ramo, I hated the signing at the time and I think it's best to just forget about him. He's not going to be a decent #1 goalie in the NHL. Force Ramo to go back to the KHL. Actually, if there is a mutual agreement for Ramo to go back to the KHL, does his cap hit come off the books?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't think any of our goalies have been very good this year, but IMO Berra has shown the most promise.

I had high hopes for Ramo, but he is just plain scary to me. Maybe he'll improve as the season continues.



Anyways, don't look now folks but Ortio just put up his 1st AHL shut out tonight, and is now 9-0-0 with the Heat this season.

2.20 GAA and a 0.930 save %

Ortio has been great in Abby, but I would like to point out 3 things:

1) He is only 23, so we shouldn't rush him
2) The NHL is a huge step up.
3) The Heat are poised to possibly make a deep run in the playoffs, so Ortio would be better off there, winning, than on a lousy NHL club, losing every night (Berra and Ramo are older and are in a better position to handle it).

It is awesome that Ortio is playing well, but it's a rebuild so let's not rush anything.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Oddly enough, this might be the most accurate post in the thread.

He reminds me of a goalie who would have been really good 30-40 years ago, not placing heavy emphasis on positioning, instead, just raw athleticism and reflexes.

Although the clock is ticking on Berra fast - it might be nice to see what would happen if an Allaire got a hold of him and set him straight.

And oddly enough, this is precisely why I think Berra has way more potential than Ramo.

Yes, they have been about equally bad.

However, when I watch Berra play, I see a goalie that could be really good.

His size and his lateral movement are fantastic. His abilities on shoot-outs are plainly evident.

Where he gets into trouble is with over-committing, and with some bad rebounds.

In other words, he has the tools, he just needs more coaching. His problems are correctable.

I think Berra can be a good NHL goalie (or at least decent). I don't have the same confidence with Ramo.

If I were the GM. I would be running Berra here, and Ortio down in Abby, just like they are doing (and waiting for Gillies), though the occasional start for Ramo wouldn't hurt either.

[fotiou22]

Has anyone been watching Ortio play in Abbotsford? How would you describe his game?