Reto Berra vs. Karri Ramo

[dammage79]

I don't think it's only Hartley either that favors Berra. Malarchuk does as well.
As far as performance goes. Ramo knows NHL ice and has not been much better than Berra.

Ramo should get more frequent starts but at this point Berra has been getting the team to OT's and shootouts. It could be the coaches believing they're seeing Berra come around and are going to be patient and feed him the starts until he completely craps the bed or they hit paydirt.

Berra is still my bet to become number one but these soft goals late in the games are starting to irritate me a little.

When Ramo gets his starts he is going to have to steal those games. Full on rob them if he wants more starts.

It's also likely they're seeing more in practices than we do in game. Theres a slew of possibilities as to why they choose Berra at this point.

[djsFlames]

I think that despite the numbers, Berra has shown better glimpses than Ramo. And all that our three goalies have shown so far are glimpses. But Berra's have been the most impressive. Ramo I think has the poorest rebound control of all three goalies. And at times he would flop around / would get down too early and be caught with a lot of open net behind him. However, despite rebounds, he is also at times excellent at making sure the pucks hit him and getting square with the shooter. But I think his game requires more refining in order to make it in this league, whereas Berra is more an issue of consistency with a few tweaks. But that's just my opinion.

Berra has also played behind a few of the poorest efforts on the team's behalf, and generally a pretty lacklustre stretch, yet has managed to stem the tide most nights.

[moon]

Did Karlsson get the excuse of not knowing NHL ice like Berra and to a lesser extent Ramo is getting now? Did the "Monster" get it when folks were making fun of him in TO?

Does that mean that guys like Fasth and Andersson are going to be unbelievable once they get used to NHL ice?

How amazing was Lundqvist coming over to the NA ice and posting the numbers he did as a rookie?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

Did Karlsson get the excuse of not knowing NHL ice like Berra and to a lesser extent Ramo is getting now? Did the "Monster" get it when folks were making fun of him in TO?

Does that mean that guys like Fasth and Andersson are going to be unbelievable once they get used to NHL ice?

How amazing was Lundqvist coming over to the NA ice and posting the numbers he did as a rookie?

When one of the major holes in your game is directly related to the size of the ice, it's a logical conclusion.

Are you also suggesting that anyone here is considering Berra in the same league as Lundqvist? That would be asinine. Perhaps next you'll wonder ask why Baertschi should be given any slack when Crosby dominated in his first full season?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by moon

Did Karlsson get the excuse of not knowing NHL ice like Berra and to a lesser extent Ramo is getting now? Did the "Monster" get it when folks were making fun of him in TO?

Does that mean that guys like Fasth and Andersson are going to be unbelievable once they get used to NHL ice?

How amazing was Lundqvist coming over to the NA ice and posting the numbers he did as a rookie?

Andersen had a full AHL season to adapt to the NA game before he was called up this season. Fasth was already 30 when he came over, which I would call "prime" for a goaltender. And the folks in Toronto were simply unfair to their goaltenders at that time IMO. Both Giguere and Gustavsson have been more than solid as backups in new organizations.

Karlsson was just a victim of timing, I think. When he came over, the Flames were still in win-now mode and they simply needed a quality backup for Kiprusoff ... he didn't get the chances and long looks like Berra is getting now in a rebuild situation where some growing pains can be forgiven.

Lundqvist was amazing right from the get-go, I'll give you that. But I doubt anybody here thinks that Berra has Lundqvist-potential, so no idea why you bring an elite goaltender to the discussion.

[Dion]

Berra reminds me of Canadiens great Ken Dryden.

[moon]

Originally Posted by strombad

When one of the major holes in your game is directly related to the size of the ice, it's a logical conclusion.

Are you also suggesting that anyone here is considering Berra in the same league as Lundqvist? That would be asinine. Perhaps next you'll wonder ask why Baertschi should be given any slack when Crosby dominated in his first full season?

Well someone has said he will be a top 10 goalie which would put him in Lundqvist's league, but no I don't think that most would think he will ever be in that league. I just used Lundqvist because he is a well known Euro goalie that didn't have issues with the change in ice. I am not comparing the two players just one aspect of their game so not sure what the point of your Baertschi/Crosby rant is.

I am not sure that his problems are due to the size of the ice but I guess we will see. Sure the angles are different but net still same size/place and shots that are right at you still should be saved whether in Europe or NA.

[Mister Yamoto]

Joey MacDonald has been the the best Flames goalie this season.

I like Berra in the shootout.

I don't like Ramo at all.

[Gaskal]

Maybe we should start Reto for the 1st and 2nd periods and throw Karri in for the 3rd.


/genius

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Maybe we should start Reto for the 1st and 2nd periods and throw Karri in for the 3rd.


/genius

and put Reto back in for the shootout.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by devo22

and put Reto back in for the shootout.

He is the Swiss king of the shootout back home, after all.




The funny part is it might actually work really well and give both goalies some ice time...

[btimbit]

^just do like we do in the pre-season, switch at the first stoppage after 10 minutes into the 2nd

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I don't think it's only Hartley either that favors Berra. Malarchuk does as well.
As far as performance goes. Ramo knows NHL ice and has not been much better than Berra.

Ramo should get more frequent starts but at this point Berra has been getting the team to OT's and shootouts. It could be the coaches believing they're seeing Berra come around and are going to be patient and feed him the starts until he completely craps the bed or they hit paydirt.

Berra is still my bet to become number one but these soft goals late in the games are starting to irritate me a little.

When Ramo gets his starts he is going to have to steal those games. Full on rob them if he wants more starts.

It's also likely they're seeing more in practices than we do in game. Theres a slew of possibilities as to why they choose Berra at this point.

Berra was a big part of the reason the Flames ended up in OT for sure. Twice it would have been regulation wins if not for a soft goal.

He also crapped the bed on a couple of occasions. Once getting pulled. He was the goalie during the worst stretch of the season. What has to happen for Ramo to get a start.

He got the tough start the second he arrived and he hasn't done enough to justify a 90 percent start ratio. Hartley was itching to play him and since getting that shot he keeps playing him.

The Flames committed a 2 year contract to Ramo, the supposed best goalie not in the NHL. He can't buy a start. He is rotting on the bench. There is to much time between starts for him to have a good chance.

I don't care who carries the bias. The goalie rotation is garbage.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Berra was a big part of the reason the Flames ended up in OT for sure. Twice it would have been regulation wins if not for a soft goal.

He also crapped the bed on a couple of occasions. Once getting pulled. He was the goalie during the worst stretch of the season. What has to happen for Ramo to get a start.

He got the tough start the second he arrived and he hasn't done enough to justify a 90 percent start ratio. Hartley was itching to play him and since getting that shot he keeps playing him.

The Flames committed a 2 year contract to Ramo, the supposed best goalie not in the NHL. He can't buy a start. He is rotting on the bench. There is to much time between starts for him to have a good chance.

I don't care who carries the bias. The goalie rotation is garbage.

I'm not entirely sure why it matters what the rotation looks like. Berra and Ramo are pretty close numbers wise, but the difference between them is pretty obvious as you watch them play.

Two of the major similarities they share are positioning issues and soft goals. The biggest difference is Berra simply looks a lot more solid and confident in net. His athleticism looks better (to me, he's looked faster and his reflexes have looked a bit better) and I don't know what it is, whether it's swagger or whatever, but he's far more a presence in net than Ramo.

Multiple times I watched as Ramo fell on his ass, and scooted around like a toddler or rolled over (facing the net during play) to stand himself up. That doesn't show a lot of strength to me.

Stat wise, they might as well be a near wash. But those other details? Berra is head and shoulders above Ramo.

Despite being better, nobody wanted Joey Mac nabbing starts from either of these guys, so if the coaching staff feels one of the two fresh goalies induces more confidence than the other, why not go with that guy?

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I see that "mediocre" has joined "literally" as the latest word which the Internet has decided means the opposite of what it actually means.

"Mediocre" means "average, middle of the road, not noteworthy".

So when you say things like "Reto Berra is a mediocre NHL goalie", or "Ramo has been been mediocre", what your saying is that they have been as good as most NHL goalies, and are average among their peers.

When in fact the phrase you're looking for is "Reto Berra is f***ing terrible".

When you are at the bottom of the league among all goalies (starters and backups) in every statistical category, you are not "mediocre".

You are "f***ing terrible". That is the opposite of not being noteworthy.

Mediocre in the NHL is Pekka Rinne, or Marc-Andre Fleury. All 3 Flames goalies this year are in the bottom 5 of the NHL for sv%. They are all much, much, worse than mediocre.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I see that "mediocre" has joined "literally" as the latest word which the Internet has decided means the opposite of what it actually means.

"Mediocre" means "average, middle of the road, not noteworthy".

So when you say things like "Reto Berra is a mediocre NHL goalie", or "Ramo has been been mediocre", what your saying is that they have been as good as most NHL goalies, and are average among their peers.

When in fact the phrase you're looking for is "Reto Berra is f***ing terrible".

Mediocre in the NHL is Pekka Rinne, or Marc-Andre Fleury. All 3 Flames goalies this year are in the bottom 5 of the NHL for sv%. They are all much, much, worse than mediocre.

Actually, Berra is 58 (out of 72) in SV% and 61 in GAA.

Considering the company around him, I suppose Fasth, Markstrom, Backstrom, Nabokov, Lindback, and Anderson are all terrible goaltenders?

I don't think terrible means what you think it means, while you're giving dictionary lessons.

That, or you believe that all of the players above can maintain NHL jobs despite being "extremely bad" and "very unskillful"...

[Street Pharmacist]

Mediocre goalies don't make the NHL...

[moon]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I see that "mediocre" has joined "literally" as the latest word which the Internet has decided means the opposite of what it actually means.

"Mediocre" means "average, middle of the road, not noteworthy".

So when you say things like "Reto Berra is a mediocre NHL goalie", or "Ramo has been been mediocre", what your saying is that they have been as good as most NHL goalies, and are average among their peers.

When in fact the phrase you're looking for is "Reto Berra is f***ing terrible".

When you are at the bottom of the league among all goalies (starters and backups) in every statistical category, you are not "mediocre".

You are "f***ing terrible". That is the opposite of not being noteworthy.

Mediocre in the NHL is Pekka Rinne, or Marc-Andre Fleury. All 3 Flames goalies this year are in the bottom 5 of the NHL for sv%. They are all much, much, worse than mediocre.

When I say Berra has been mediocre I mean in comparison to the other Flames guys and maybe from what I have expected from him. Considering I said that none look like NHL starters or that they have that potential I thought it was pretty clear that mediocre didn't mean NHL level mediocre.

[moon]

Originally Posted by strombad

Actually, Berra is 58 (out of 72) in SV% and 61 in GAA.

Considering the company around him, I suppose Fasth, Markstrom, Backstrom, Nabokov, Lindback, and Anderson are all terrible goaltenders?

I don't think terrible means what you think it means, while you're giving dictionary lessons.

That, or you believe that all of the players above can maintain NHL jobs despite being "extremely bad" and "very unskillful"...

Lindback, Markstrom and Nabokov are all terrible goaltenders.

Unlike Berra Anderson, Fasth and Backstrom all have histories of good play that allow them a little more leeway to think this is a blip but if they continue like this all year then yes they would be terrible goalies as well.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Dion

Berra reminds me of Canadiens great Ken Dryden.

Oddly enough, this might be the most accurate post in the thread.

He reminds me of a goalie who would have been really good 30-40 years ago, not placing heavy emphasis on positioning, instead, just raw athleticism and reflexes.

Although the clock is ticking on Berra fast - it might be nice to see what would happen if an Allaire got a hold of him and set him straight.