Calgary mother relied on herbal remedies: son died, mother charged

[Temporary_User]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/11...ial-infection/

the boy was bedridden for 10 days before his death, however, the mother declined to seek medical treatment, relying instead on homeopathic remedies, including herbal medicines.

The police said they have no medical records for the boy prior to his death. The child had recently been enrolled in a local school. Prior to January of this year, he had been home-schooled.

I also like how the National Post tries to describe 17th ave as some sort of odd mecca for these weirdos:

The family live in an older, squat apartment along the trendy 17th Ave. SW of Calgary, a strip replete with coffee shops and bars. Home to a Tarot card shop and used clothing store, the block is a close-knit community, according to a neighbour and friend of the family.

[moon]

Good to see charges laid when idiots are so reckless with their children's lives. How can you let your child die when something as simple and easy as penicillin could have fixed the issue in days.

What I don't get is in the article they say they can't release the name of the mother but then use the grandfather's name no problem. I guess it takes a little digging to find the mother but it seems fairly easy to figure it out if you want especially since the grandfather is somewhat (although this may be pushing the term) of a public figure.

[TorqueDog]

This kind of sh*t really gets me fired up. Credulous idiots spreading their asshattery about to other credulous idiots. Most people will happily write it off as 'harmless'... right up until someone dies.

[Oling_Roachinen]

They should also go after any and all of the homeopathic remedies that were sold with any sort of claim without scientific basis (i.e. all).

Sometimes you can't protect idiots from themselves but if a boy is dead because some asshat told the mother this "medicine" would heal the boy and not to worry he's at fault at well.

[4X4]

I think I might reserve judgement, after reading the whole article. The grandfather says that the child was only sick for 4 days, and that the mother thought it was the flu. If that is true, it casts it in a different light. Kid is sick, with what looks like a common illness, she put him to bed for a few days, and bought some natural remedies to hopefully speed the recovery.

Personally, I have a big debate in my head every time my kid is sick. Am I wasting everyone's time by taking her to the doctor when she appears to have a cold? I don't want to sit in a waiting room for two hours to be told by the doctor that she needs rest. On the other hand, I'm not a doctor. I don't know what he sees when he sticks the tongue depressor in her mouth. So is it prudent to take her to the doctor?

As for this mother, the one thing that I think is pretty eyebrow raising is that there are no medical records for the child. So he didn't get any of his vaccinations at 6 months and 18 months and 4 years (or whatever it is, I'm not pulling out the vaccination card to make my point), and he's never, ever been sick enough to go see a doctor? Even once? No tonsils, no head cracking off a coffee table? Nothing? Seven years old?

As much as I want to get really angry, maybe this time I'll wait to see what the courts decide.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

They should also go after any and all of the homeopathic remedies that were sold with any sort of claim without scientific basis (i.e. all).

Sometimes you can't protect idiots from themselves but if a boy is dead because some asshat told the mother this "medicine" would heal the boy and not to worry he's at fault at well.

I agree - often the parents are duped and can't be expected to know better when governments allow these scam artists to operate and pharmacies sell their products, which gives them credibility they shouldn't have. Though in this case if the boy had never seen a doctor that's more than just the mom believing some nonsense.

[moon]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I think I might reserve judgement, after reading the whole article. The grandfather says that the child was only sick for 4 days, and that the mother thought it was the flu. If that is true, it casts it in a different light. Kid is sick, with what looks like a common illness, she put him to bed for a few days, and bought some natural remedies to hopefully speed the recovery.

Personally, I have a big debate in my head every time my kid is sick. Am I wasting everyone's time by taking her to the doctor when she appears to have a cold? I don't want to sit in a waiting room for two hours to be told by the doctor that she needs rest. On the other hand, I'm not a doctor. I don't know what he sees when he sticks the tongue depressor in her mouth. So is it prudent to take her to the doctor?

Perhaps you don't take your daughter to the doctor right away but you likely give her medicine to control things like a fever or to help with the pain.

I also am not sure that I would trust the grandfather story that much and doubt it was normal flu like symptoms and then death.

I don't want to use my recent experience with strep to say the child's symptoms would be exactly the same but if they were anything close to what I experienced (which seems normal talking to others/reading on the internet) there was likely a lot of indicators that more than bedrest and bogus herbs should be used.

[Street Pharmacist]

I could tell stories for days on this type of ####

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I think I might reserve judgement, after reading the whole article. The grandfather says that the child was only sick for 4 days, and that the mother thought it was the flu. If that is true, it casts it in a different light. Kid is sick, with what looks like a common illness, she put him to bed for a few days, and bought some natural remedies to hopefully speed the recovery.

Personally, I have a big debate in my head every time my kid is sick. Am I wasting everyone's time by taking her to the doctor when she appears to have a cold? I don't want to sit in a waiting room for two hours to be told by the doctor that she needs rest. On the other hand, I'm not a doctor. I don't know what he sees when he sticks the tongue depressor in her mouth. So is it prudent to take her to the doctor?

As for this mother, the one thing that I think is pretty eyebrow raising is that there are no medical records for the child. So he didn't get any of his vaccinations at 6 months and 18 months and 4 years (or whatever it is, I'm not pulling out the vaccination card to make my point), and he's never, ever been sick enough to go see a doctor? Even once? No tonsils, no head cracking off a coffee table? Nothing? Seven years old?

As much as I want to get really angry, maybe this time I'll wait to see what the courts decide.

I agree with you that I debate with my son as well. However, for her to be charged, especially so quickly there must be a pretty obvious case to be made of neglect.

Is she guilty? I don't know, but I would think no medical records are a huge flag here, and maybe they uncovered other incidents when doing interviews.

I don't think any parent is going to get charged if their kid gets the flu, and has a seizure. Most times they will look and see you tried to the bare minimum of what a parent should do. There must be something in this case yet reported that was so past reasonable it caused them to quickly move.

It may not have been her intent to neglect, but it is just sad that this boy suffered due to the mental shortcomings of his mother.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Personally, I have a big debate in my head every time my kid is sick. Am I wasting everyone's time by taking her to the doctor when she appears to have a cold?

Yes....you are.

Honestly 4x4, I'm not trying to be a dick but is she appears to have a cold, why take her to the doctor? What is he going to be able to do for her? I think parents need to trust their gut feeling a bit more. You know your kid pretty well and I think most know when it's serious and when the just picked up "what's going around". Of course as a parent you get upset when your kid isn't feeling well and you want to do everything you can to make them feel better. But more often than not, just letting them rest at home is the right course of action.

My dad was a doctor and his number 1 pet peeve was hypochondriac parents who ran their kids to the doctor the second they sneezed.

Not saying that's exactly what you are doing but if your kid isn't feeling well, give it a couple of days. If it's clear that they are not getting any better or getting worse than yes, absolutely take them in.

But like you said, if it appears she has a cold, why not wait a few days to see what happens?

[stampsx2]

Run to the doctor, wait for two hours in the waiting room only to get something worse.

Hypochondriac parents drive me nuts as well.

And to the parents that let their kid run around the arena with the other kids coughing and sneezing with only a t-shirt on, good job, you're the chicken pox party without the party.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Yes....you are.

Honestly 4x4, I'm not trying to be a dick but is she appears to have a cold, why take her to the doctor? What is he going to be able to do for her? I think parents need to trust their gut feeling a bit more. You know your kid pretty well and I think most know when it's serious and when the just picked up "what's going around". Of course as a parent you get upset when your kid isn't feeling well and you want to do everything you can to make them feel better. But more often than not, just letting them rest at home is the right course of action.

My dad was a doctor and his number 1 pet peeve was hypochondriac parents who ran their kids to the doctor the second they sneezed.

Not saying that's exactly what you are doing but if your kid isn't feeling well, give it a couple of days. If it's clear that they are not getting any better or getting worse than yes, absolutely take them in.

But like you said, if it appears she has a cold, why not wait a few days to see what happens?

Thanks for the update. That's why I don't take her to the doctor when she has a cold. Which is why I have a bit of understanding why it's possible that this mother might have done the same thing, with terrible results.

[jar_e]

I find it incredibly odd that the child had no medical records at all. I thought maybe it was a wording issue in the National Post article, but the herald article confirms...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/cr...019/story.html

The single mother, who lived in a Beltline basement suite, shunned conventional treatment to follow her belief in holistic remedies.


In fact, police say there is no record of the boy ever being taken to the doctor for annual checkups or any treatment.


“We have no medical record of his entire life,” said Cavilla.

Bizarre.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

My dad was a doctor and his number 1 pet peeve was hypochondriac parents who ran their kids to the doctor the second they sneezed.

Not saying that's exactly what you are doing but if your kid isn't feeling well, give it a couple of days. If it's clear that they are not getting any better or getting worse than yes, absolutely take them in.

But like you said, if it appears she has a cold, why not wait a few days to see what happens?

I've had my fair share of doctors at the Children's roll their eyes at me. You know what, as a first time parent of a toddler I have always said if I am unsure I will err on the side of caution.

I figured the doctors who said to me "oh no, better safe than sorry", really went home and two faced to their family about the idiot bringing in their kid with breathing problems.

But hey, that is their problem, not mine. You become a doctor and you shake your head at people who do nothing until too late, and you shake your head at those who do too much. I seriously could care less, the one thing I never want to live with is regret about my son. If that causes doctors like your Dad to go home and make fun of me all the power to him. Think that says a lot more about him than me.

Oh BTW, we never brought in our son in for an awful cought he got with colds, figured it was normal. Then I was having lunch with a doctor and my son and he told me to take him in. It was Asthma. He's now being treated for it. Who knows what would of happened if we continued to do nothing.

[TorqueDog]

I'll admit I used to be sort of a stubborn old goat when it came to going to the doctor myself, and still am a little.

If it feels like a sort of 'regression-to-the-mean' common cold, I'll guzzle some orange juice to cut the phlegm and make my throat feel better, pop a decongestant, and get on with my day. If something lasts for more than two days, I go and get myself checked out, just to be safe. I ended up nearly having a burst appendix in Burnaby the last time I decided that the stabbing pain in my abdomen would just go away, like I ate too much cheese or something and my digestive system was having a hard time getting rid of it.

I remember having strep when I was a kid and - if my memory serves me correctly - you KNOW when you have it because you really, really hate life. High fever, throat feels like it's closing in and - if one cares to look - you can see how swollen and raw the throat is. I might be stubborn about my own health, but if I had kids, I'd take them after two days, or sooner if I saw the tell-tale strep symptoms.

[Minnie]

I just got over a bout with strep. 2nd time in my life I've had it - like TorqueDog, it was pretty obvious that something was going on when it felt like Edward Scissorhands had taken up residence. At 7, it's not like the kid wasn't verbal - at least, I don't believe I read anything that said he was non-verbal for any reason (autism, etc). He would have been able to verbalize that his throat was hurting like hell's fury. And what is up with the grandfather calling it a 'rare infection?' Strep isn't that rare. Seems like some years are worse for it than others but it's not rare.

Slightly odd that he had no doctor visits. Not even the typical well-baby visits or yearly checkups.

[para transit fellow]

Such outrage of no medical records at a time when lots of folks don't have a family doctor....

[Minnie]

Well, not outrage for me but it's peculiar. They said NO records at all. He must have been born at home, I guess, in thinking it over, because otherwise they'd at least have the birth records from a hospital. Mom must have registered the birth and then refused well baby visits from the home health people, and didn't take him for yearly check ups, at least not with a registered physician. Clearly no vaccinations or there'd be a record of those, to report on.

What a shame he had to die.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Thanks for the update. That's why I don't take her to the doctor when she has a cold. Which is why I have a bit of understanding why it's possible that this mother might have done the same thing, with terrible results.

If you're unsure, phone 811,or see a Pharmacist. We don't mind if you waste our time and are trained to determine whether a doctors visit is needed. A couple of quick tips to remember.

See a doctor if (for children older than 6 months):
-fever longer than 24 hours
-Difficulty breathing
-fever does not respond to acetaminophen or ibuprofen
-child shows signs of dehydration (watch urine output)
-severe pain


Those will answer most questions, but ask someone if you're unsure. There's lots of qualified free help out there. As has been mentioned, you know your child. If something seems seriously wrong, see a doctor or ask your pharmacist

[Slava]

Of course she could've taken the child to a clinic, and the doctor would've probably chatted for a couple minutes and said, 'ya, its that time of year and you haven't had a flu shot, so get some rest'.

That sounds a lot more terrible, but honestly how easy would it be to tell the difference between this infection and the flu or a virus? The grandfather seemed to think it was the flu, and if he's right that it was four days that's downright scary. I'm not sure I'd have my kids to a clinic because I would think its 'just the flu' as well.