Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by Cuz

Personally, I am not a fan of paying for the distance of a trip, I believe it would create too much confusion (at least at first) for passengers.

They have this in Dubai- you swipe when you go into the platform area, and then you swipe when you leave at your destination.

You can't exit any other way (outside of emergency) because the turnstiles lock.

You would think it'd be slow, but in fact it's pretty quick if there are 10 open turnstiles.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Lots of people throwing out names of cities with electronic fare payment.

Hong Kong - Octopus
Netherlands - Chipkaart
London - Oyster
Vancouver - Compass
(and yes, Edmonton - Blue)

One technology is behind it all - MIFARE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIFARE

It's there, go get it. Stop getting screwed around by vendors like you're the Canadian Military.

It looks like they just make the smart cards themselves. You'd still need the whole system to handle everything else.

Cubic (http://cts.cubic.com/en-us/customers.aspx) is the company behind the Oyster, New York's MetroCard, Vancouver's system and a lot more, but many companies offer these types of systems.

Telvent says they've done systems that handle 2.5 billion passengers per day, but I can't find the actual cities where they've deployed similar systems.

[Cuz]

Originally Posted by fotze

I am the total opposite. So simple and elegant and fair. 20 years ago, fine, difficult to implement but today, with the technology in our hands I bet posters on this very board could design an app to do this in 2 days.

The system does make sense and is quite equitable, you pay for what you use. However, as a transit operator, I am extremely biased as if we ever went to a system like this, I could only imagine the headaches I would have to deal with on a daily basis during the change over to a system like this.

[worth]

Also, this may or may not be relevant or obvious, from what I heard from a friend at Telvent, the system was not being designed by Telvent engineers in Calgary. It was being designed at a different location.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by fotze

I am the total opposite. So simple and elegant and fair. 20 years ago, fine, difficult to implement but today, with the technology in our hands I bet posters on this very board could design an app to do this in 2 days.

I don't think Calgary's expanse is wide enough to warrant a multiple zones like Vancouver and Greater Vancouver. Maybe if transit extends to Airdrie/Cochrane/Okotoks, I could see that.

[HOWITZER]

I'm not quite familiar with Winnipeg and what they're up to but the City/Province has announced a $600 million dollar, 7 km busway line between downtown Winnipeg and the University of Manitoba.

CTV News Article

Even though the project is combined with a couple other projects, seems insane that a BRT project would cost 85 million per km to build. Especially compared to the LRT project in Kitchener-Waterloo where they're putting 19km of LRT and 17 km of aBRT in for 818 million (43 million/km if you just divide the entire capital cost by the LRT distance, 22 million/km for the entire length).

Strange.

[mykalberta]

Does anyone know what a 4 lane highway would cost per km?

Its possible YWG is taking the moderated approach with a population of only 650Kish. Instead of spending alot of money on new vehicles they can utilize existing infrastructure and bus MTCE facilities and just run articulated buses. Depending on the number of stops, lights, etc its the more economical choice.

And then when the population or ridership gets to a sufficient amount they can then install tracks. In the long run yes its more expensive but it lowers the capital cost at the beginning.

Also without knowing the cost of purchasing the land required its not really a fair comparison with another City's per km cost unless they are talking apples vs apples.

[Regular_John]

Wait, CT is once again talking to the same vendor after having installed & removed all those electronic fare boxes last year? It appears they pulled the plug on that system at the 11th hour (judging by all the equipment that was installed) and they are giving them another kick at the can?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by HOWITZER

I'm not quite familiar with Winnipeg and what they're up to but the City/Province has announced a $600 million dollar, 7 km busway line between downtown Winnipeg and the University of Manitoba.

CTV News Article

Even though the project is combined with a couple other projects, seems insane that a BRT project would cost 85 million per km to build. Especially compared to the LRT project in Kitchener-Waterloo where they're putting 19km of LRT and 17 km of aBRT in for 818 million (43 million/km if you just divide the entire capital cost by the LRT distance, 22 million/km for the entire length).

Strange.

I believe that most of the winnipeg busway is grade separated. The LRT line in KW is likely mostly not grade separated.

[HOWITZER]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I believe that most of the winnipeg busway is grade separated. The LRT line in KW is likely mostly not grade separated.

Yeah, I can confirm that the KW LRT is not grade separated. It just runs down some old train line (like south CTrain) for a few kms and then down the middle of King St. through uptown Waterloo and downtown Kitchener.

I really don't understand the map, but here is the "phase 2" diagram for the Winnipeg expansion.

PDF Doc

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Wait, CT is once again talking to the same vendor after having installed & removed all those electronic fare boxes last year? It appears they pulled the plug on that system at the 11th hour (judging by all the equipment that was installed) and they are giving them another kick at the can?

I don't know all the details, but I vaguely remember reading something about how Telvent was working on the system for months at their own expense, and they promise its going to work. CT says they're giving them another chance because it won't mean a 2-year delay for an entirely new system, blah blah blah

[Cuz]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

I don't know all the details, but I vaguely remember reading something about how Telvent was working on the system for months at their own expense, and they promise its going to work. CT says they're giving them another chance because it won't mean a 2-year delay for an entirely new system, blah blah blah

Yeah, it's at no expense to the city and they have until Dec 15 to reach an agreement with Telvent

[Tyler]

I'm not a fan of Michael Platt at all, but he's got some great points in this article:

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/11/19...engers-steamed

With CTrain mechanical breakdowns again today, this is really getting ridiculous. I'm glad I only have to bus now. Can't imagine having to take the CTrain every day. It's just so unreliable.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I'm not a fan of Michael Platt at all, but he's got some great points in this article:

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/11/19...engers-steamed

With CTrain mechanical breakdowns again today, this is really getting ridiculous. I'm glad I only have to bus now. Can't imagine having to take the CTrain every day. It's just so unreliable.

I was definitely surprised when we added a new line and multiple new stations on an overcrowded system before replacing the end-of-life U2s.

[TurnedTheCorner]

This paragraph is hilarious:

"At the start of November, police and transit officials were forced to issue a plea for motorists to stop crashing into C-Trains, after three such collisions in a matter of days."

[SebC]

Reliability seems like just another problem that the downtown subway could help solve.

- No more issues with frozen switches.
- Problems on one line would far less affect the other line.
- Fewer medical issues caused by overcrowding (i.e. people forced to stand when they shouldn't, claustrophobia etc.)
- Fewer pedestrian/auto/cyclist incidents downtown.
- System would have capacity to recover from an event, instead of a persistent traffic effect when something goes wrong. It would be possible to clear out backlogs.

Remind me again why this isn't a priority?

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by SebC

Reliability seems like just another problem that the downtown subway could help solve.

- No more issues with frozen switches.
- Problems on one line would far less affect the other line.
- Fewer medical issues caused by overcrowding (i.e. people forced to stand when they shouldn't, claustrophobia etc.)
- Fewer pedestrian/auto/cyclist incidents downtown.
- System would have capacity to recover from an event, instead of a persistent traffic effect when something goes wrong. It would be possible to clear out backlogs.

Remind me again why this isn't a priority?

Cuz it costs like a billion and a half dollars

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Cuz it costs like a billion and a half dollars

That would be fantastic value compared to lengthening lines that are already at throughput capacity.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Cuz it costs like a billion and a half dollars

And the cost is only going to go up... it needs to get done, period. The city needs to bite the bullet on this one and get it done. Screw the SE and that crap leg of the LRT. Do the 8th avenue subway then the North-Central line

[SebC]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

And the cost is only going to go up... it needs to get done, period. The city province needs to bite the bullet on this one and get it done. Screw the SE and that crap leg of the LRT. Do the 8th avenue subway then the North-Central line

*ahem*