Jay Bouwmeester flourishing in St Louis - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Cleveland Steam Whistle · 11-20-2013, 08:14 PM

The reason he didn't flourish in Calgary is because he was expected and paid to be the #1 D-man on this team, and be the go to guy. In St.Louis, he doesn't have to be the man, and can be an incredible support guy.

Clearly a much more suited role for his personality and abilities.

Anduril · 11-20-2013, 08:16 PM

Not surprised at all. Always thought that he would be best paired as a supporting character to a partner who would be carrying the two of them, and is more physically inclined. He's not somebody I want back though, even with the Flames' defensive woes just with the similar kinds of players in Brodie and Russel.

dieHARDflameZ · 11-20-2013, 08:16 PM

Not surprised at all... The guy is talented!

Machiavelli · 11-20-2013, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The reason he didn't flourish in Calgary is because he was expected and paid to be the #1 D-man on this team, and be the go to guy. In St.Louis, he doesn't have to be the man, and can be an incredible support guy.

Clearly a much more suited role for his personality and abilities.

Agreed. I really did not like him in his role for the Flames. Good for him that he's doing well, but I'm still very glad he's not on this team anymore.

Bertuzzied · 11-20-2013, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The reason he didn't flourish in Calgary is because he was expected and paid to be the #1 D-man on this team, and be the go to guy. In St.Louis, he doesn't have to be the man, and can be an incredible support guy.

Clearly a much more suited role for his personality and abilities.

Isn't he though? he is on the #1 pairing with Pietorangelo.

chockfullofgoodness · 11-20-2013, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Agreed. I really did not like him in his role for the Flames. Good for him that he's doing well, but I'm still very glad he's not on this team anymore.

I think I can speak for all of CP when I say we are shocked by this revelation.

Vinny01 · 11-20-2013, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The reason he didn't flourish in Calgary is because he was expected and paid to be the #1 D-man on this team, and be the go to guy. In St.Louis, he doesn't have to be the man, and can be an incredible support guy.

Clearly a much more suited role for his personality and abilities.

He joined a dcorp that had Phaneuf, Rehegr, and Sarich (not to mention Gio). He didn't have to carry the back end when he was signed. The Flames should have moved one of their top 4 for scoring before that season anyway but when he came to Calgary it was a similar situation to St. Louis where he would be joining a stacked defense

Cleveland Steam Whistle · 11-20-2013, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Isn't he though? he is on the #1 pairing with Pietorangelo.

By support player, I didn't mean 5/6 guy, I meant he's the #2 on that pairing. He doesn't have to be the difference maker, the top dog, in St. Louis he gets to ride shotgun to the top guy, but the hero's side kick. He doesn't have to be the hero.

Much better role for him.

Poe969 · 11-20-2013, 09:36 PM

I loved watching him sneak in from the point only to drop back to the blue line while the puck stayed in the corner.

I've always liked him as a player and I was sad it didn't work out here. I hope he makes it for team Canada and does great.

Cleveland Steam Whistle · 11-20-2013, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He joined a dcorp that had Phaneuf, Rehegr, and Sarich (not to mention Gio). He didn't have to carry the back end when he was signed. The Flames should have moved one of their top 4 for scoring before that season anyway but when he came to Calgary it was a similar situation to St. Louis where he would be joining a stacked defense

When he came to Calgary there were 2 others that could have been argued to be other top D men, Reg and Phaneuf as you state. No surprise, that's when he played his best here, when he was paired with Gio and not carrying top pairing load as the #1.

Pretty quickly after he arrived, Neuf was shipped out and we all saw how quickly Reg's play dropped from a top tier guy as well.

Bouw was paid and brought here to be our #1, to be our Chara (different play style), Keith or Neidermyer. It's why the Flames made some of the moves they made after the signing, because they were banking on him being their #1, and one of the best number #1 D men in the game. He never came close to being that, and that is one of the biggest reasons this team declined so quickly.

Now I agree, you can't blame Bouw for the decline in the other key players on this team's play, or the botched deals when they did ship out the likes of Phaneuf, but it doesn't change the fact that Bouw was still unable to assume the #1 d man role, and especially the game breaking D man role the Flames paid him to be. Now in St. Louis, he gets to play a role much better suited to him, a solid #2 guy for a top flight defender.

FAN · 11-20-2013, 09:48 PM

There are truths that often get forgotten: 1) Bouwmeester is not an elite #1 defenseman and so was completely overrated when the Flames first acquired him; 2) Bouwmeester is a legitimate top 4 defenseman who can be a complimentary top pairing guy or anchor his own second pairing.

There really is no denying that Bouwmeester has a solid package of skills. He is skilled enough to play with skilled players and his solid positioning allows him to play solid defense and log a ton of minutes. He is at his best when he is allowed to use his skating skills as he can recover when he decides to join the rush or pinch in. Brent completely misused him and tried to turn him into a tough stay-at-home defenseman which he is not.

I think it shouldn't come at a surprise that Bouwmeester is flourishing with the Blues. He is playing on a team who plays solid positional defense and is paired with Pietrangelo who can be considered among the game's elite. There are other guys to provide offense from the backend and other guys to provide tough stay-at-home defense. In other words, Bouwmeester is allowed to play his game and be the complimentary guy without the pressure of having to be the man. Really a perfect situation for him.

cowtown75 · 11-20-2013, 11:15 PM

I am just glad J-Bo was playing decent hockey at the time of the trade so we were able to get a 1st (Poirier), Reto Berra, and Cundari- Not bad considering the previous 3 years no one would of touched that contract with a 30 foot pole.

handgroen · 11-20-2013, 11:46 PM

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=130638

nickk382 · 11-21-2013, 12:05 AM

Good for him, he had is downs as a Flame in my perspective, but you have to have respect for players that respected your team during the period of time he played for us. However, on another note, this Flames team has a sleeping monster that is waiting to be awakened in the next couple or so years.

Sorry that I had to include the unnecessary portion to my second sentence.

Carry on!

combustiblefuel · 11-21-2013, 12:45 AM

Good to see him doing well. He drew the short straw when he played for the tigers when I lived in Medicine Hat. Glad too see it all work outfor him.

Yakbutter · 11-21-2013, 12:54 AM

This guy was awful when he was here. Played with the intensity of a tortoise. Never made any plays happen in the offensive zone, never stepped up in big games when we needed him too. He had 4 years to turn his game around and become the player he was paid too be.

Sorry no fond memorys of Bouwmeester for me, and the "Brent Sutter" excuse is massively lame. Jay Bouwmeesters is responsible for Jay Bouwmeesters apathetic play and I'm glad he's gone.

Flames Draft Watcher · 11-21-2013, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowtown75

Not bad considering the previous 3 years no one would of touched that contract with a 30 foot pole.

That's a pretty big assumption that I don't think is true. Bouw was never as bad here as his haters made him out to be. And I don't think his trade value was anywhere near as low as the haters thought it should be.

Bouw was a good defenseman the whole time he was here and I think he still had solid value while here.

puckluck2 · 11-21-2013, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Bouw was a good defenseman the whole time he was here and I think he still had solid value while here.

Bull crap. No he wasn't.

FlameZilla · 11-21-2013, 04:50 AM

His first couple of months in Calgary he was insanely good. I believe he was +17 around Christmas, playing lights-out while playing with Giordano. Phaneuf was playing with Regehr & looked like a dufus. Phaneuf gets traded, Bouw gets paired with Regehr & by the end of the season he's a minus player. Nothing against Regehr, but 'the system' didn't suit any of our D pairings.

Brent Sutter didn't know how to use him. I'm not sure he knew how to properly use anyone, come to think of it. Everybody underachieved while he was the coach.

FAN · 11-21-2013, 07:43 AM

Let's not get carried away. Bouwmeester's cap hit was $6.68M here. For 3 of his 4 seasons here, he was a 3-5 goal under 30 point defensemen. It doesn't matter how good you are defensively, no under 30 point defensemen is worth $6.68m in that market. Does that mean he had no trade value. Of course not. But he was a terrible value here.

The fact of the matter is that offensive production matters in determining a defensemen's cap hit and in today's NHL, a player's cap hit matters. Bouwmeester might be able to log a lot of minutes and play positionally sound defense, but if he's not putting up goals and or points he's essentially a stay-at-home defensemen. And when it comes to stay-at-home defensemen, there are guys who are harder to play against and make a lot less.