Is Bob Hartley the right coach for this team? - Page 23 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Bertuzzied · 11-19-2013, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Just because you say that doesn't make it true.

Don't forget how Brent Sutter guided Team Canada to a 5th place finish at the World Championship to the powerhouse Swiss team.

Bertuzzied · 11-19-2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Just because you choose to bury your head in the sand doesn't mean others have to.

hahahahaha. Brent Sutter apologists RE-UNITE! Wonder Twins activate!!!

There is reason why even the Oilers chose Ralph Krueger over Brent Sutter. hahaha He is back where he belongs. In Red Deer dominating!

Machiavelli · 11-19-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Just because you choose to bury your head in the sand doesn't mean others have to.

I'm not burying my head in the sand.

You don't speak for all Flames fans, so please stop acting like you do.

GreenLantern2814 · 11-19-2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Yeah. why would Iggy be upset when he is getting up there in age and having David Moss center him? hahahaha and he should be grateful to Sutter for putting out a 5 dman powerplay so he can rest his old legs.

Or devaluing the trade value of Bouwmeester, Sarich and Stajan so Iggy can feel like he is the overwhelming #1 player on this team.

The only time the Flames won the division with Iggy, he scored 67 points and killed penalties. He played with Langkow and Huselius.

He had his most torrid offensive pace under Playfair (Had he not missed 10 games due to injury, he would've finished with 108 points) and the team snuck into the playoffs on the last game of the season only after Nashville lost. They were subsequently embarrassed.

The exact same narrative played out under Keenan. And as long as Iggy got his points, everyone was satisfied. From the moment Playfair got the axe, it was established that Iginla ran the show. Keenan was brought in as a starf***er head coach who let his big dogs run the show. He gave them loads of icetime with no accountability.

Iginla was a product of his environment; the right move would've been for Darryl to come out of the GM office after 06-07 and retake control of the team, and hire someone else to do scouting and personnel. Instead, we got the last six years.

saillias · 11-19-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Just because you choose to bury your head in the sand doesn't mean others have to.

You have a chronic habit of speculating based on your own whims and passing it off as an objective fact.

This Iginla actively undermined Brent Sutter thing is one of those instances

Frank MetaMusil · 11-19-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Yeah. why would Iggy be upset when he is getting up there in age and having David Moss center him? hahahaha and he should be grateful to Sutter for putting out a 5 dman powerplay so he can rest his old legs.

Or devaluing the trade value of Bouwmeester, Sarich and Stajan so Iggy can feel like he is the overwhelming #1 player on this team.

Or burying Stajan on the 4th line, or pairing Butler/Bouwmeester come hell or high water. Getting blown out 9-0 in Boston or 9-1 vs San Jose. Losing 9 games in a row right before unloading Phaneuf. Kicking garbage cans. Putting Comeau and Jones in the shootout. The list goes on.

Not once did Brent Sutter hold any player he coached in Calgary accountable for anything. Never had Iginla kill any penalties (which he's doing in Boston). Brent's teams were also frequently shut out at home.

nik- · 11-19-2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Or burying Stajan on the 4th line, or pairing Butler/Bouwmeester come hell or high water. Getting blown out 9-0 in Boston or 9-1 vs San Jose. Losing 9 games in a row right before unloading Phaneuf. Kicking garbage cans. Putting Comeau and Jones in the shootout. The list goes on.

Not once did Brent Sutter hold any player he coached in Calgary accountable for anything. Never had Iginla kill any penalties (which he's doing in Boston). Brent's teams were also frequently shut out at home.

So we're blaming Brent Sutter for the Dion trade now? Interesting.

Frank MetaMusil · 11-19-2013, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

So we're blaming Brent Sutter for the Dion trade now? Interesting.

Well, he was the coach of the team when they lost 9 in a row. His esteemed GM brother (who also hired him) executed the trade, but that's a good question. Would Phaneuf have been traded for trash if Calgary was still in a playoff spot?

Anyways, neither Iginla or Brent have anything to do with Bob Hartley's coaching of this year's team. I don't hate Hartley and I don't think he's nearly as crappy as some here do, but to each their own.

nik- · 11-19-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Well, he was the coach of the team when they lost 9 in a row. His esteemed GM brother (who also hired him) executed the trade, but that's a good question. Would Phaneuf have been traded for trash if Calgary was still in a playoff spot?

The GM set a value in his mind for Dion, not the coach. He's the one who hit the panic button and got garbage, not Brent. I wasn't a fan of Brent by the end, but lets not get ridiculous here.

I think looking back, it was Keenan who installed the cancer in this team. It just took a few years to fully eat away the tissue.

Frank MetaMusil · 11-19-2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

The GM set a value in his mind for Dion, not the coach. He's the one who hit the panic button and got garbage, not Brent. I wasn't a fan of Brent by the end, but lets not get ridiculous here.

I think looking back, it was Keenan who installed the cancer in this team. It just took a few years to fully eat away the tissue.

13 playoff games in 2 seasons is surely cancerous.

nik- · 11-19-2013, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

13 playoff games in 2 seasons is surely cancerous.

First round exit with our most talented team in 15 years in '09, pissed away a huge division lead over the last few weeks that same year and gave rise to the country club atmosphere while he was here.

Yes, cancerous.

Frank MetaMusil · 11-19-2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

First round exit with our most talented team in 15 years in '09, pissed away a huge division lead over the last few weeks that same year and gave rise to the country club atmosphere while he was here.

Yes, cancerous.

Injuries and cap circumvention don't matter now? The Flames could only dress 15 players because Darryl refused to put Regehr on IR. Injuries to Langkow, Bork, Glencross, Sarich, Phaneuf, & Regehr are all Keenan's fault?

Had they won the division (lost it by a loser point to Vancouver) they would have drawn the Blues in round 1 and likely beaten them. I think Keenan got a raw deal, but I know many won't agree.

calumniate · 11-19-2013, 02:03 PM

You mean the 09 injury year? Not very fair..

nik- · 11-19-2013, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Injuries and cap circumvention don't matter now? The Flames could only dress 15 players because Darryl refused to put Regehr on IR. Injuries to Langkow, Bork, Glencross, Sarich, Phaneuf, & Regehr are all Keenan's fault?

Had they won the division (lost it by a loser point to Vancouver) they would have drawn the Blues in round 1 and likely beaten them. I think Keenan got a raw deal, but I know many won't agree.

Yup, injuries suck, but Keenan was still the start of the downfall of this team. He didn't get a raw deal, he was a poor choice of coach for that team.

CliffFletcher · 11-19-2013, 02:14 PM

The players mutinying against Playfair was the start of the downfall. Team chemistry and work ethic were never the same after the debacle of the Detroit series.

MacFlame · 11-19-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The players mutinying against Playfair was the start of the downfall. Team chemistry and work ethic were never the same after the debacle of the Detroit series.

I consider the loss of game 7 vs. Anaheim the start of the downfall. The team was never the same after.

CaramonLS · 11-19-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The players mutinying against Playfair was the start of the downfall. Team chemistry and work ethic were never the same after the debacle of the Detroit series.

The memories of that disaster in Detroit still haunt me. Should have been only 4 games if not for Kiprusoff. So many bad habits which carried on since that series for years.

Frank MetaMusil · 11-19-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

Yup, injuries suck, but Keenan was still the start of the downfall of this team. He didn't get a raw deal, he was a poor choice of coach for that team.

Well I reckon it's much easier to "piss away a division lead" when you can't recall anyone and a handful of your top forwards AND d-men are out with injuries.

I liked the 2008/2009 team a lot. They had a great PK (nearly the polar opposite of Hartley's team)

CliffFletcher · 11-19-2013, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

The memories of that disaster in Detroit still haunt me.

It was like the scene in Aliens where the space marines get slaughtered.

Bertuzzied · 11-19-2013, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

Yup, injuries suck, but Keenan was still the start of the downfall of this team. He didn't get a raw deal, he was a poor choice of coach for that team.

Not as poor as Brent effing Sutter. World junior championships and Memorial Cups only get you so far until you hit the Pro's. I hated Keenan and was happy we 'stole' Brent away from the Devils, but now you have hindsight and boy is it god damn ugly. Would be the worst coach in Flames history but thankfully he has Greg Dogbert to thank.