Is Bob Hartley the right coach for this team?

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Rerun

When you look at the number of coaches the Flames have hired in the past 33 years (13 not counting the two interim coaches), is any coach the right coach?
...
Average life span for a Flames coach is about 2-1/2 years
...
Frankly, I'm a little tired of the revolving door coach here in Calgary.

Well our very own Brian Burke believes that a coach has a shelf life and the harder the coach is on his players the shorter that shelf life is. So starting with that, the standard contract for an NHL coach is usually between 3-4 years, with 5 years having popped up this summer. In reality, coaches rarely start a season with only one year left in their contract so it's common that coaches get fired with at least one year left on that contract. So in reality a coach who signs a 3 year contract really only has 2 years to prove himself and earn an extension.

As much as successful franchises are accustomed to having the same coach, statistics suggest that if a coach doesn't win a Cup within the first 4 years of coaching the team, the odds are that it's never going to happen with that team. The average is actually less than 3 years. So if a coach doesn't win the Cup by year 3 of coaching the team, the odds are already against the coach winning the Cup with that team.

So if the ultimate goal is to win the Stanley Cup, you really should look into changing coaches every 3-4 years.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Rerun

When you look at the number of coaches the Flames have hired in the past 33 years (13 not counting the two interim coaches), is any coach the right coach?

Average life span for a Flames coach is about 2-1/2 years (205 games) with Bob Johnson holding the record for longest Flame coach at 400 games and Don Hay and Jim Playfair for the shortest at 68 and 82 games respectively.

Take Bob, Don, and Jim out of the equation and the average Flames coaching career is 181 games.

On that basis alone, Hartley's days are numbered.

Frankly, I'm a little tired of the revolving door coach here in Calgary.

The door has been revolving because for the most part the coaches haven't delivered. Outside of Playfair I can't think of a fired head coach that showed that he deserved to remain longer outside of Dave King and maybe Brent Sutter. The hires have been poor for the most part and I don't have a problem with the revolving door as long as it eventually stops on a keeper. Hartley isn't that guy but he is delivering the high draft picks that this team dearly needs for it's rebuild so in some ways you can say he is the right coach for this team as he's going to keep them in the mix for top 5 overall picks as long as he's coaching the team.

[foshizzle11]

Any coach would deliver a top 5 pick with this group of players, don't fool yourself.

Brent needed to go as well, no way he should have stayed on, players stopped playing his systems and listening to him. Was the right move IMO.

Hartley isn't doing anything wrong, some strange moves but nothing so dramatic that it has cost us a bunch of games.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Any coach would deliver a top 5 pick with this group of players, don't fool yourself.

Brent needed to go as well, no way he should have stayed on, players stopped playing his systems and listening to him. Was the right move IMO.

Hartley isn't doing anything wrong, some strange moves but nothing so dramatic that it has cost us a bunch of games.

I agree with this.

Yes, some of Hartley's line combinations have been interesting to say the least, but I see it more as him trying to be creative with the limited roster he has. It seems to me that Hartley wants some size on each line, but that we really lack big players with skill (other than D. Jones who was hurt for a while and is just starting to get back into a groove).

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Of the twenty players the Flames dressed tonight, nineteen were acquired or re signed by Feaster. This is not Darryl Sutters' team anymore. Not even close.

True, although the roots of it are his... takes time to recover when you're starting with an organization with a bottom five farm system, toxic NHL assets, No cap space, and all your best players well on the wrong side of thirty.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Any coach would deliver a top 5 pick with this group of players, don't fool yourself.

Brent needed to go as well, no way he should have stayed on, players stopped playing his systems and listening to him. Was the right move IMO.

Hartley isn't doing anything wrong, some strange moves but nothing so dramatic that it has cost us a bunch of games.

You mean Iginla and some of his buddies stopped playing Brent's system. We all know Iginla undermined Brent during his time as Flames head coach as it was no different than what happened with Playfair. His system works just ask the Devils or any junior team he's coached. I think he would have this current group playing better overall hockey and there would be less mind games with the rookies. Yes it probably wouldn't be extremely exciting but it's a process.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You mean Iginla and some of his buddies stopped playing Brent's system. We all know Iginla undermined Brent during his time as Flames head coach as it was no different than what happened with Playfair. His system works just ask the Devils or any junior team he's coached. I think he would have this current group playing better overall hockey and there would be less mind games with the rookies. Yes it probably wouldn't be extremely exciting but it's a process.

Just because you say that doesn't make it true.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You mean Iginla and some of his buddies stopped playing Brent's system. We all know Iginla undermined Brent during his time as Flames head coach as it was no different than what happened with Playfair. His system works just ask the Devils or any junior team he's coached. I think he would have this current group playing better overall hockey and there would be less mind games with the rookies. Yes it probably wouldn't be extremely exciting but it's a process.

We all know this? I'm not sure anyone does...

[CliffFletcher]

“I know the coach here — he’s a hard-ass and he’s not going to suffer fools,” said Hitchcock about Flames’ second-year bench boss Bob Hartley.

“He’s not going to put up with some of the things he saw last year. He won’t have any patience for that. He knows what it takes to win. And for some players it’s not going to be fun or pretty, but I really believe that man can get it done.”

- Ken Hitchcock

What do you think things he saw last year means? And what changed?

[JobHopper]

Why wasn't Matt Stajan given a shot in the shootout last night?

I also thought that after the shorthanded goal by Lance Bouma last night that Harley should have changed up the penalty killers.

The Flames still won the game so it's all good but those could have been costly mistakes.

Overall I still would say that Bob Hartley is the right coach for this team at this time.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You mean Iginla and some of his buddies stopped playing Brent's system. We all know Iginla undermined Brent during his time as Flames head coach as it was no different than what happened with Playfair. His system works just ask the Devils or any junior team he's coached. I think he would have this current group playing better overall hockey and there would be less mind games with the rookies. Yes it probably wouldn't be extremely exciting but it's a process.

The Devils were fine before and after Sutter (even Lou Lam. had a good record coaching them during that period).

Some times a coach's record really is a product of the roster - whether the record is good or bad. The same could be used to defend Sutter's record with the Flames, however I personally believe that he had a pretty good roster for at least 2 seasons that way under performed.

Most analysts had the Flames contending for the division when Sutter took over, whereas this season, most had us dead last based on the roster.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

“I know the coach here — he’s a hard-ass and he’s not going to suffer fools,” said Hitchcock about Flames’ second-year bench boss Bob Hartley.

“He’s not going to put up with some of the things he saw last year. He won’t have any patience for that. He knows what it takes to win. And for some players it’s not going to be fun or pretty, but I really believe that man can get it done.”

- Ken Hitchcock

What do you think things he saw last year means? And what changed?

They traded Bouwmeester?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

We all know this? I'm not sure anyone does...

Would you agree that watching this team play / the effort they put in on a nightly basis is dramatically different from last year and the previous couple seasons?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Would you agree that watching this team play / the effort they put in on a nightly basis is dramatically different from last year and the previous couple seasons?

Yes. Does that have anything to do with undermining a coach? Come on. That's a huge stretch

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

“I know the coach here — he’s a hard-ass and he’s not going to suffer fools,” said Hitchcock about Flames’ second-year bench boss Bob Hartley.

“He’s not going to put up with some of the things he saw last year. He won’t have any patience for that. He knows what it takes to win. And for some players it’s not going to be fun or pretty, but I really believe that man can get it done.”

- Ken Hitchcock

What do you think things he saw last year means? And what changed?

The goalie being run? No push back? mailing it it after going down by 2 goals?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The door has been revolving because for the most part the coaches haven't delivered. Outside of Playfair I can't think of a fired head coach that showed that he deserved to remain longer outside of Dave King and maybe Brent Sutter. The hires have been poor for the most part and I don't have a problem with the revolving door as long as it eventually stops on a keeper. Hartley isn't that guy but he is delivering the high draft picks that this team dearly needs for it's rebuild so in some ways you can say he is the right coach for this team as he's going to keep them in the mix for top 5 overall picks as long as he's coaching the team.

I agree that most past hires have been poorly chosen. We, for the most part, keep recycling coaches that others have fired.

Time to hire someone new and innovative.... For the life of me I don't understand why Ward wasn't given a chance.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by FAN

Well our very own Brian Burke believes that a coach has a shelf life and the harder the coach is on his players the shorter that shelf life is. So starting with that, the standard contract for an NHL coach is usually between 3-4 years, with 5 years having popped up this summer. In reality, coaches rarely start a season with only one year left in their contract so it's common that coaches get fired with at least one year left on that contract. So in reality a coach who signs a 3 year contract really only has 2 years to prove himself and earn an extension.

As much as successful franchises are accustomed to having the same coach, statistics suggest that if a coach doesn't win a Cup within the first 4 years of coaching the team, the odds are that it's never going to happen with that team. The average is actually less than 3 years. So if a coach doesn't win the Cup by year 3 of coaching the team, the odds are already against the coach winning the Cup with that team.

So if the ultimate goal is to win the Stanley Cup, you really should look into changing General Managers every 3-4 years.

+

FYP. Too often the blame for a poor season lands on the coach when the problem really lies with the players... and its the GM who is responsible for signing and keeping those players.

[CliffFletcher]

This team was borderline uncoachable while Iginla and Pals felt entitled to ignore the system and play as they please. We finally have a regime and the personnel in place where players can be held accountable - all players. Not surprisingly we're seeing a lot more energy and buy-in right through the lineup.

IMHO, that's what Hitchcock we alluding to when he said Hartley is not going to put up with stuff that he had to put up with last year. For the first time since Sutter left the bench, the coach is the top dog on this team.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Just because you say that doesn't make it true.

Just because you choose to bury your head in the sand doesn't mean others have to.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You mean Iginla and some of his buddies stopped playing Brent's system. We all know Iginla undermined Brent during his time as Flames head coach as it was no different than what happened with Playfair. His system works just ask the Devils or any junior team he's coached. I think he would have this current group playing better overall hockey and there would be less mind games with the rookies. Yes it probably wouldn't be extremely exciting but it's a process.

Yeah. why would Iggy be upset when he is getting up there in age and having David Moss center him? hahahaha and he should be grateful to Sutter for putting out a 5 dman powerplay so he can rest his old legs.

Or devaluing the trade value of Bouwmeester, Sarich and Stajan so Iggy can feel like he is the overwhelming #1 player on this team.